Coral Growth Rates / Estimates

[justgettinstarted]

I would not say that this cant be done, or that results could not be collected and compiled, but i dont think they could be used as a projection of what should be expected!

In my SPS experience it was totally tank dependent. My friend who was as anal as I am gave me frags and they would explode in my tank under nearly identical water parameters and overall flow parameters. However I would have 2 frags, one placed in a 30g cube, and one in my 100g main and they would grow at different rates even though they shared the same water and overall flow... but the microclimate of each was obviously different. Our main systems were nearly identical but still we would see drastic growth rate differences.

I think there are either too many variables or that there is such a non linear dependence on so many things that its just not realistic to be able to do something like this.

 

[tuumi]

I think it's an interesting idea. Don't say it can't be done. Any one of us can measure the parameters of the tank and then measure growth.
I think anyone interested in the topic is smart enough to understand the variability involved. Posting it can't be done over and over again isn't really helpful.
I know I would be interested in seeing the results other people get in their tanks.

 

[vbsaltydog]

The problem with this is not the potential for results as much as lack of subject involvement.

You can tell by the general attitude of the responses that the populace does not want to do this even though it is a valid effort and the results would be appreciated by many hobbyists.

Harvesting the data, regardless of whether that data can shows conclusive results or not, is the problem. Solve the data collection problem FIRST and then bicker over how accurate the results are.

The size of the data sample must be more than just a few people for a proper scientific experiment so why don't you start simple and select ONE popular coral to test, get a large data sample of say 500 people, get their AVERAGE growth rate over a 6 month period to weed out the month to month variations in growth, get their environmental variable data and then crunch those numbers to see if the average reported growth rate for that coral over a 6 month period can be validated by the populace and if so, THEN expand your effort to include more corals and publish the results.

 

[Tigre9]

Well, this was an attempt to get some data from as many people as possible. However so far no one is giving anything that can be measured. If people would just state what they do know with regard to size or timeframes (variables understood) then an average could be obtained in the end results.

I believe that nothing is impossible, however people sometime make it more difficult to reach a goal by not providing and instead adding the negative to a possible solution. The solution to data collection is to have some data first, weather it is valid, invalid, accurate, inaccuarte, or just partial.

I will keep asking for what people have learned while keeping fish,coral,and inverts. Somewhere along the process there will be a relatively simple collection of data that can be documented. "For every problem, there is a solution", "For every question, there are many more questions".

 

[TiTAN]

I think it would be a great project to start documenting growth rates.

I would suggest we start simple.

Coral ID:
Coral Size:
Lighting:
Water Flow:
Water Parameters:

Pictures to document the Growth Sequence.

This will not get exact results because all systems are different but you will see a overall picture.

PM me if you want to take it further.

 

[vbsaltydog]

In an effort to get the ball rolling...

Purple Haze Monti
1/2" full diameter growth over 60 days
Medium water flow
10" water depth
5" offset from 250w 14k phoenix MH and 2 54w actinic T5s
total distance from lights 27" (lights 12" from water, coral 10" underwater, corals 5" offset to the left from MH bulb).
target feed coral frenzy a few times a week.

 

[TiTAN]

Great Start, do you have pics that document this growth?

 

[vbsaltydog]

I lost the mini usb cable for my camera so while I can take a picture, I can't get the pic from the camera to the computer for the time being.

 

[Salamander]

I don't know how much benefit so much info would be in determining growth rates.

I think the easier and way to do it is just a general classification from people's experiences.

Slow, moderate, fast and fastest.

A few comparisons from my tank. But even with all things equal growth rates fluctuate. Here are just a few to start from my experience.

Fastest
GSP
Anthelia
xenia
Sarcophyton

Fast
Montipora digitata
Montipora capricornus
Acropora micropthalma
Acropora millepora
Acropora youngei
Poccilopora damicornis
Seriatopora
Stylophora
Palythoa
Zoanthids
Nepthea

Moderate
Acropora Valida
Caulastrea sp.
Echinophyllia
Non-photosynthetic gorgonians
Sinularia
Capnella
Lamnella
Actinodiscus (but explode on occasion)
Rhodactis (but explode on occasion)
Ricordea

Slow
Acropora tortuosa
Favia sp.
Favites sp.
Hydnophora rigida
Encrusting montipora
Merulina ampliata
Pavona sp.
Trachyphyllia geoffroyi
Euphyllia sp.
Isaurus

 

[Tigre9]

This thread was not created to just get fast and slow as a growth rate that a text book already gives. If you look at the previous reply with a good suggestion for a start actually will be great in the long run.

Coral ID:
Coral Size:
Lighting:
Water Flow:
Water Parameters:

The Water depth was a great addition and placement. Thanks everyone for helping out. Even the list given with fast or slow and groups will be used. I just want to keep this as simple as possible with measurements included.

I'm so happy to get some raw data after several months from my first posting this thread.

Thanks! :dance:

 

[tecsavi]

Tagging along. Very interesting.

 

[jbrown11352]

I just added 33 frags to my 48 x 30 x 16 frag tank today and another 21 in 2 weeks for a total of about 70 and I will update monthly. Looking forward to this info from others as well.

 

[TiTAN]

Looking forward to see the pics as they grow.

 

[tecsavi]

I would think you would need to add other pretty important tank varibles like basic water chemistry and tank volume as well. Another issue is proper identification of the coral itself which will skew the results. Don't get me wrong I think it is a great idea, just trying to improve opon the concept.

Really in the end you are most likely going to have a result like salamander has posted. With all of the variables you will have to have a general growth rate average but you will have an average none the less. The alternative is a database similar but far more complex to Sanjay's lighting database where you can modify a huge amount of variables to see the results.

Who will be the lucky person to host this database and set up the queries for data mining?...lol

 

[vbsaltydog]

I could setup a database and web forms to allow users to enter their info into the db. I could setup a search engine for the db too but RC will have to agree not to close the thread or remove the links to the site where the db is hosted otherwise my work would be for nothing.

 

[TiTAN]

I am looking at setting up coralgrowthrate.thereefshed.com in a blog style where each person has his\her own login to update his/hers coral with Specs etc...

What does everyone think?

 

[vbsaltydog]

With respect, how does that differ from a thread on RC for your coral and posts to report it's growth rate?

I think the goal here is to have a large database of parameters and corals. Then you can use the db to do things like:

(1) Find the best corals for growing under parameters that match your own.
(2) Find the fastest growing corals, examine common denominators in the parameters for them, and design a system that matches the common denominators.
(3) Examine the parameters that have the best reported success for a specific type of coral (zoas, acros, lps, etc) if you intend to build a "dominated" tank and then build your tank to match the averages of the reported results to improve your chances of growing coral x in your coral x dominated tank.

Stuff like that. While a blog is good for reading, it does not provide the ability to crunch the numbers to get averages for specific scenarios or to find exact data to match specific queries across multiple user entries.

 

[TiTAN]

With respect, how does that differ from a thread on RC for your coral and posts to report it's growth rate?

I think the goal here is to have a large database of parameters and corals. Then you can use the db to do things like:

(1) Find the best corals for growing under parameters that match your own.
(2) Find the fastest growing corals, examine common denominators in the parameters for them, and design a system that matches the common denominators.
(3) Examine the parameters that have the best reported success for a specific type of coral (zoas, acros, lps, etc) if you intend to build a "dominated" tank and then build your tank to match the averages of the reported results to improve your chances of growing coral x in your coral x dominated tank.

Stuff like that. While a blog is good for reading, it does not provide the ability to crunch the numbers to get averages for specific scenarios or to find exact data to match specific queries across multiple user entries.

I get your point, a very good one at that. My point of the blog is to view/document the progress of each Coral. Also the blog will be a collection of everyone's efforts.

If you can build it I will host it.

 

[vbsaltydog]

I can build it and I have my own servers so I could host it as well and it would be easier for me since I have root access to the server. The problem still stands that once it is up and running, RC will not allow any links to it, so how would people know to find it.

We are talking about a lot of work and I would have to know that it would be accessible without my needing to do tons of SEO or buying ad space on forums.

 

[tecsavi]

saltydog - I really like your concept of corals matched to parameters and vice versa. You are right this is an incredible amount of work on your part.

Is there a reason why reef central won't allow external links? I am envisioning something very similar to Sanjay's lighting database that is linked on the manhattanreef site. I would thing it would be a huge resource that would bring in more users to reef central = more advertising dollars.