killerbee181
Here fishy fishy!
well i think that depends on the lighting they decide on. If they end up going with 20 400watt metal halides i think they will have a big heat problem. Even with all the venting.
Terry
Terry
Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank)
- Thread starter nineball
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Poeticlydead
New member
Your location has nothing to do with it since the the system is indoors the weather in your home should be roughly the same as in his. The size of the chiller would be what ever is needed to counter act the heat being added to the system by outside sources (lighting, pumps etc..) with a larger system this load can be significant especially when you consider the energy that would be required to adjust the temp of the whole mass.
A British Thermal Unit (BTU) is the amount of heat energy needed to raise the temperature of one pound of water by one degree F (for the sake of simplicity this works much the same just in reverse for cooling).
huskerreef
New member
I run a 1 hp chiller on my system, originally it was in the fish room but the heat it pulls from the aquarium gets put into the room and then room is hot and the chiller becomes less efficient because the air it draws across the cooloing coils is hot. The fish room was uncomfortable to be in. Moved the chiller out to my garage, now the fish room is perfect temp wise, but still get some inefficiencies from the chiller in the summer as the air temp in the garage is nearly 120. In the winter it works perfectly. If I could do it all over I would opt for the chiller to be outside for best performance.
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
We have discussed moving the heat exchanger for the chiller outside. I have worked with this type of system before for goldfish holding tanks and lobster systems where the compressors are on the roof. This video shows this kind of set-up with an exhaust fan. It's a great reef video too
http://www.reefvideos.com/ click on "Carl's 300G Reef".
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
Thanks for reminding us
The leaves are turning colours already and I just bought a new winter coat.
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
You are exactly right. The chiller works against itself. If we move the chiller outside during the winter, the gas reacts poorly as it won't work. On the plus side, Mother Nature is giving away free cold air for half of the year
Poeticlydead
New member
With this size system I think it is a great idea and your hvac guy will like you alot more too. :lmao:
dahenley
New member
im just glad there is a cold front coming and the temp is under 90Deg....
as far as climate. i think it matters. if your in the south, then your house is hot and the AC is working overtime to keep the house toleratable....
if your up north, then you house might be cold and you run the heater to warm it up. so it wont take as much effort to drop the temp.
if you in central, then you have to worry about heat and cool weather. so you will be running both.
(i dont even own heaters for my tank.... it never gets that cold. )
as far as climate. i think it matters. if your in the south, then your house is hot and the AC is working overtime to keep the house toleratable....
if your up north, then you house might be cold and you run the heater to warm it up. so it wont take as much effort to drop the temp.
if you in central, then you have to worry about heat and cool weather. so you will be running both.
(i dont even own heaters for my tank.... it never gets that cold. )
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
When sizing a chiller, we look at the "pull down rate", which denotes how many degrees we can drop the tank temp. In general, a chiller should only have to drop 5˚Æ’ but you never know these days. JBJ has a nice calculator on their website I usually use.
As it stands, the display tank is running 4˚Æ’ higher than the ambient room temp of the fishroom. When the fishroom was 80, the tank was 84. We have been able to keep the fishroom stable at 75 up until the past week when the main AC for the house was shut off. Today we were firming up our ability to maintain that temp.
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
From my understanding, you get some brownouts and blackouts (power outages) in Texas and when the AC shuts down, it gets tough. Although it gets pretty damned cold up here in winter, our homes are well insulated, we have fireplaces and it's easy to put on a sweater or an extra blanket. Power outages are very rare and Peter has the whole neighbourhood taken care of with his backup generators.
Poeticlydead
New member
http://chiller.jbjlighting.com/prod_chiller_size.asp
Hmm,
So the pull down rate on a chiller tells you how long it takes the unit to lower the temp from point a to point b under a given load.
What we are not seeing is the behind the scenes calcuations giving us the rules of thumb that have been created to simplify the process for chiller selection - hence why most manufactures give you simple guide line of tank size to hp.
Simply put you could say the tank is 84F and you want it to be 80F (so you want to lower the temp 4 degrees F) a unit sized to your system exactally (this is where all that equipment load is figured in and water volume) has the ability to lower your temp 4 degrees in 4 hours now if you want that same temp change in a shorter period of time then you go with a larger unit.
Makes since.
Now that we understand the sizing of the chiller you still have the problem of this unit exhausting 12,000 btuh (or one ton) of heat into your fish room and the a/c only giving you the ability to remove 1 ton of heat and if you do increase the heat load on the tank you increase the time it takes to get the temp down and if you feel the need to improve your pull down rate you would need to increase the size of the chiller causing further problems with the fish room. I guess I'm back where I was before it seems to me from a professional hvac stand point that these systems would be better served to exhaust outside.
If you do decided to DIY the sytem to operate as a split set up I would be very interested in the write up. To help with your coil freezing I wonder if it would be possible to set it up on a low ambient system like those used for commercial refrigeration. Hmmm...
Sorry to ramble but maybe others will find the info usefull
Oh and sorry for the spelling/grammer
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scubasteve06
Jeeper Reefer
Lots of really great information and conversations flying around in this thread I'm just soaking it up like a sponge in bucket.
3seconds2live
New member
I'm by no means a ventilation expert but i know enough to get me through my line of work. My suggestion is if space provides have your ventilation guy come in and put in exhaust ductwork from the chiller that goes two places one: outside for those hot summer months and two: into your home heating system for the winter months. a simple damper system to divert flow to point a or b. It will divert the exhaust allowing the climate control system in the fish room to do its job and help with heating your home durring the winter. Just a thought maybe its not practical or possible but an exhaust for the chiller is the best option as its been stated a remote heat exchanger will only cause problems in the winter months with low temp cycling. Dont judge my poor spelling and quick picture i'm sneaking this in at work and watching for the boss 
I just though after i hit submit you can instead of exhausting outside durring winter exhaust to your garage and keep that bently nice and warm wouldnt want all those cars to get cold.... Knowing peter though you already have a garage heater :lol:
I just though after i hit submit you can instead of exhausting outside durring winter exhaust to your garage and keep that bently nice and warm wouldnt want all those cars to get cold.... Knowing peter though you already have a garage heater :lol:
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110galreef
New member
Which eductors did you go with. What exactly does the eductor do differntly than a penductor. Why one over the other? Also any idea of how much head pressure these add to a pump?
Thanks
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
Very well summed up Sir. That's exactly where we sit. Our AC unit is working steadily to maintain the fishroom temp. The compressor is outside so there is no rumble & hum when it kicks in but it appears to be running 24/7 which would indicate it is undersized, overtaxed, and unable to handle an increase in demand.
Once the chiller comes on, our demand is doubled, and the result is a rapid 13˚ temp increase in the room. As it stands, the chiller is a paper weight. We have a space to run the coolant lines outside conveniently so we may sever the unit. I have never installed a chiller on a reef aquarium before as there is always a cheaper and easier alternative and the noise, space, and heat venting issues are more trouble than they are worth. Chillers work best with a main floor aquarium and a basement (or garage in Texas & California) chiller. It keeps your basement warm and your tank cool.
The Mars invert system has a small chiller. We had no problem dropping the temperature down to 65˚ in a short period of time, but it did heat the rest of the systems.
During the summer Peter had the basement cool enough to run the display tank at 74˚. This was my first clue he was a vampire
I can see his reflection in the tank though? During the cooler months, we should be able to import cool air from outside at next to no cost. Automating the system and setting up fail safes will be the art of the design. During the summer our concern was heating the tank. We have three 1,000 watt heaters ready to go when and if needed. There is a benefit to controlling heaters and chillers on one system so the heater and chiller aren't running at the same time or in succession. When I took on the project, the tank had two 1 HP chillers hooked up to it. We have the other chiller available in case we need to hold down a lot of papers
Keep in mind, our other concern is humidity in the house. The fish room is running at 45-50% right now. The area above the display tank is 55% when the exhaust fan is on low, and it drops to 40% when the fan is off, due to the 6˚ temp increase. In other words, the lighting burns off some humidity.
We are still working on lighting selection for the display. Our final selection will influence heating and cooling issues of course. This is an area where LED light "shines".
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
I'm by no means a ventilation expert but i know enough to get me through my line of work. My suggestion is if space provides have your ventilation guy come in and put in exhaust ductwork from the chiller that goes two places one: outside for those hot summer months and two: into your home heating system for the winter months. a simple damper system to divert flow to point a or b. It will divert the exhaust allowing the climate control system in the fish room to do its job and help with heating your home durring the winter. Just a thought maybe its not practical or possible but an exhaust for the chiller is the best option as its been stated a remote heat exchanger will only cause problems in the winter months with low temp cycling. Dont judge my poor spelling and quick picture i'm sneaking this in at work and watching for the boss
I just though after i hit submit you can instead of exhausting outside durring winter exhaust to your garage and keep that bently nice and warm wouldnt want all those cars to get cold.... Knowing peter though you already have a garage heater :lol:
We have some clearance issues where the chiller is located so direct venting is difficult.
I know storing cars in a garage that is not climatically controlled is a bad idea during the winter because of the excess humidity and condensation. I'm sure Peter will have a dehumidifier in the winter to keep his investment safe. We are planning on removing the humidity and heat. If some of that heat can be shared with the rest of the house, than we will do so, but not at the expense of growing mould. Unfortunately, the garage is at the opposite end of the (very large) house, so we can't locate the chiller guts there.
I will ask Carl if his outdoor chiller still works in the winter. For those who didn't watch the video I posted, the exhaust fan and chiller comes in at the 17:00 mark.
Ahhhh I miss the colors but definitely don't miss the winter coats.Thanks for reminding us
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