Corals Browning

[Bacchus_fl]

I have a 125 that I set up about 6 months ago that I tranfered from a 75. It has 2 MH 400W 20Ks and 2 160W VHOs 50/50.

All of my parameters are in check but some of my corals seem to be dull in color or brown. Pieces that I know are different colors are just plan brown. Everything seems to be doing great growth wise just a lack of color.

What could cause this?

Thanks in advance for your help and let me know if you need additional info.

Jason

 

[InLimbo87]

Phosphates are usually a huge contributor to browning of sps corals. How sure are you that your phosphates are 0? Other than that, your setup sounds like you shouldn't be having any issues with colors.

How old are the bulbs? Old bulbs may cause something like this also.

 

[Bacchus_fl]

My MHs are probably about 7-9 mo and the VHOs are only 4 months old. I was planning on replacing the MHs soon but I thought they were usually good for 12-15 months?

My phosphates read zero or near zero everytime I test with a Salifert test kit.

 

[jay24k]

If they read near zero with a salifert test kit, then that means you probably have an issue. Phosphates generally get consumed very quickly and even those with a zero reading can have issues.

20K bulbs should be replaced at 7 to 9 months. Their spectrum dies very quickly. Do you have a refugium? How old is your tank? What kind of sand bed do you have? Do you have a calcium reactor or do you use two part? Reason I ask the last is because many that use 2 part don't keep their levels consistent on a daily basis and the alk swings can cause browning.

 

[cham]

I agree with Jason.

I've had P04 issues in the past that have caused a browning in corals & I have never been able to get a color reading with Salifert's test. Its somewhat known that most phosphate tests are no good for the levels we need to maintain. There are a couple that work well but I can't remember their names.

I watch my algeas & colors to tell me when to change my GFO.

 

[Bacchus_fl]

I do have a 30 G refugium where I have mangroves, macros, live rock rubble and Miracle mud. My tank is about 6 months old but the majority of the contents I have had in different tanks over the last decade. I just upgraded my tank and some equipment 6 months ago which included a new substrate. I have a fine sand bed that is about 1 - 2" deep.

I do not use a 2 part or have a calk reactor. I have just been dripping with KALK and using MAG, IODINE, and Essintial Elements once a week, plus the Miracle mud is suppose to keep the elements balanced in the water.


As for my display I don't have any algea blooms generally associated with high phosphates but I also have a huge cleaner package.

The only real issue I have right now is keeping my heat down. The tank raises to about 82.5 by the end of the MH cycle. It doesn't seem to be causing any stress to anything but I also know it is not optimal.

 

[cham]

Your temp ends at 82.5? Thats on the high side but not a problem. What could be a problem is a swing of more than say 2*. What is your starting temp?

If you have little or no algea growth in your display or fuge I would say your P04 is in check. The issue is more likely a "swing issue" with one or more params swinging too much. KH being the most harmful to colors.

IMHO, don't put any stock on the miracle mud maintaing params for you. The Essintial Elements are also not a good idea IMHO. You should use water changes to control trace elements. Beyond that there are only 3 elements to control. KH, CA & MG. It really is that easy.

 

[Bacchus_fl]

My starting temp is 79.5 which is controlled by my RK2. I also do water changes about every 2 weeks or so.

I add 4 capfuls of Oceans Blend MAG every week and 3 caps of Kent Iodine and Kalk when needed.

I am not sure how to balance my KH. The other noticable problems I have is my leathers tend to stay closed, my xenia don't pulse as much as most peoples and most recently my fogspawn has started to turn clear in a few spots.

I wish I knew what was going on. I guess I need to get a KH test kit right away and try changing out my bulbs.

 

[cham]

I would try getting your temp swing under 2* per day, although I doubt this is your brown out issue.

Why are you dosing MG every week? Is your tank using it? Are you testing for it?

Tell me you aren't adding 3 caps of kalk directly to your tank.

You can balance your PH by dripping kalk water (once its clear, about 24 hrs after mixing is safe) over the coarse of a day or buy supplimenting with two part Ca & Alk daily depending on your tanks needs.

 

[Bacchus_fl]

Right now the only way to get my temp swing under 2 is to increase my heat at night. IS that waht I should so?

I am not testing for Mag but the last time I checked it was with a borrowed test kit in June and it was 1400.

I am definitely not adding Kalk straight to the tank. I am using a 2G drip with 5 Tbsp of Kalk mix once a week and it takes about 2 days to drip out. My PH stays between 8.0 and 8.2 most of the time.

 

[ben&bobbi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10501624#post10501624 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bacchus_fl
Right now the only way to get my temp swing under 2 is to increase my heat at night. IS that waht I should so?

I am not testing for Mag but the last time I checked it was with a borrowed test kit in June and it was 1400.

I am definitely not adding Kalk straight to the tank. I am using a 2G drip with 5 Tbsp of Kalk mix once a week and it takes about 2 days to drip out. My PH stays between 8.0 and 8.2 most of the time.

When we set our 180 up in December, we transfered everything from our 75g also. Most corals browned out. Fortunately they are slowly returning to their wonderful colors. Several of them are from jay24k!

I agree with the above about the parameters need to be in check. I am very doubtful that people are keeping their tanks within 2 degrees between day and night unless they have a huge chiller, and heater. My tank from side to side, top to bottom will vary 2 degrees! Also, remember some peoples responses are from what they hear and not what they do themselves.

My thinking is, you keep an eye on the parameters and let the tank come to it's own and mature, then the colors will return. You said they are growing which is a good sign, i think time will bring the color back. it also doesn't happen over night. I still have some purples that are not back on monti's, but a purple tipped milli is bright.

i stopped stressing and let them come around, keep an eye on the levels, and let the tank mature. If you notice, all the pictures posted are from colorful tanks are atleast 1yr or more established, or it is right after they bring a new coral home.

No comments (except the one to jay) are directed at anyone, just my experience.
Ben

 

[skinnyjoe1976]

just a thought. have you test water temp with a different termometer? not saying the rk2 is not right but some people let the probes dry out or they need replacing. and 82.5 is not all that bad. i would say save up for a chiller and let the temp drop a little at night and will be less in the evening. what kind of flow do you have?

 

[cham]

My tank swings about a degree or less each day & I don't have a chiller.

 

[ben&bobbi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10502557#post10502557 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cham
My tank swings about a degree or less each day & I don't have a chiller.

where are you taking the temp? have you checked other areas of the tank to see that the whole tank is +/- .5 degree!?

where is the heat going from the MH? Closed top? Have you checked the probe to make sure it works? my fresh water tank reads 65 degrees ALL the time. It's no where near that cold!

 

[cham]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10502806#post10502806 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ben&bobbi
where are you taking the temp? have you checked other areas of the tank to see that the whole tank is +/- .5 degree!?

where is the heat going from the MH? Closed top? Have you checked the probe to make sure it works? my fresh water tank reads 65 degrees ALL the time. It's no where near that cold!

Right now I have a Reef Keeper, Aqua Contoller II, Coralife digi cheapo & a tried & true mercury thermometer all in my sump reading temps. All four readings are close to each other or within a .3 (except occasionally the coralife has a seisure)

LOL, this is only temporary. I am calibrating the offset on my AC II temp probe to make sure I have it dialed in perfect.

I would hope I don't have any hot spots or temp variations in my display. I turn over just over 50 times per hour, or 5,500 gph in my 110 display. Tons of surface turbulance too. I don't see how any hot spots could exist in such a high flow tank.

I do have a closed top with two MH, two T5's and two VHO's. I have two 4" fans that blow into my canopy that cool the lights and blows across the waters surface. Evaporation is an amazing cooling system that is often overlooked IMO.

My Reef keeper is programed to kick the fans on at 79.8 and run till the tank lowers to 79.5. Typically its able to do this in a short time, unless its during the time of day where all lighting is on at the same time in which case its only able to hold the temp steady, not take it down. Typically the daily high temp for my tank is 80.4 give or take a .1

Its been set up this way for about a year.

Do you have a controller?

 

[ben&bobbi]

no controller yet. fans run constantly. Temps taken with an infered temp gun shooting through the front glass. I wouldn't say there are hotter spots, but coolers ones, under caves, shaded areas and such.

My tank swings +/- 1 degree, meaning from 81-79 and i am happy with that. i evaporate @ 1gal a day, top off with kalk (mrs. wages pickling lime) mixing constantly in top off container through an aqualift controlled by a float switch.

 

[cham]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10503029#post10503029 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ben&bobbi
no controller yet. fans run constantly. Temps taken with an infered temp gun shooting through the front glass. I wouldn't say there are hotter spots, but coolers ones, under caves, shaded areas and such.

My tank swings +/- 1 degree, meaning from 81-79 and i am happy with that. i evaporate @ 1gal a day, top off with kalk (mrs. wages pickling lime) mixing constantly in top off container through an aqualift controlled by a float switch.

I don't think what you have is an issue at all. 2 degrees from what I have read is perfectly fine. Once you start using a controller you will find controlling temps to be a "Breeze!!" lol

I top off the same way, I evap about 11 to 12g per week with kalk, aqua lifter & mrs wages contolled by PH controller & float switch.

If your in the market for a controller mine will be on here for sale soon . Just need to get this AC up and going and make sure I don't have any issues.

 

[cham]

Sorry to hijack your thread Bacchus_fl.

What test kits do you have for testing KH & Ca?

 

[ben&bobbi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10503110#post10503110 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cham
Sorry to hijack your thread Bacchus_fl.

What test kits do you have for testing KH & Ca?

ditto, i was going to say that and just let you know i am not trying to argue or debate you.

Just wanted to point out not to take everyones response for fact.



I also am becoming a big believer in clams. My father-in-law still talks about jay24k's huge clam. We did add a couple to our tank and maybe coincidence, but that's when things started coming into shape!

 

[Bacchus_fl]

No problem, I also use multiple means for measuring temp with the RK2 and cheapo digi and a standard mecury themometer. They all read pretty much the same except the digi, I think it has a split personality and needs to be on medication.

Cham is definitely right about the controllers, I just got mine a couple months ago and it makes managing temp much easier. I think I could keep my temp down without a chiller if I was turning my tank over as many times as you. I would love to know more about your pumps and plumbing.

I have salifert test kits for Nitrates, PO4 and CAL. I know I need to get a KH and MAG kit but anything else?