Corals Browning

[cham]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10503185#post10503185 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ben&bobbi
ditto, i was going to say that and just let you know i am not trying to argue or debate you.

Just wanted to point out not to take everyones response for fact.



I also am becoming a big believer in clams. My father-in-law still talks about jay24k's huge clam. We did add a couple to our tank and maybe coincidence, but that's when things started coming into shape!

No problem at all Ben. This is a discussion forum, I enjoy discussing different ideas and techniques. I learn new stuff everyday, I don't know near enough about this hobby & enjoy learning new things from other reefers.

There are a few that are easily offended on this forum, but I think most know who they are.

I like clams too. Anyone have any good reading on clam studies?

 

[cham]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10503492#post10503492 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bacchus_fl
No problem, I also use multiple means for measuring temp with the RK2 and cheapo digi and a standard mecury themometer. They all read pretty much the same except the digi, I think it has a split personality and needs to be on medication.

Cham is definitely right about the controllers, I just got mine a couple months ago and it makes managing temp much easier. I think I could keep my temp down without a chiller if I was turning my tank over as many times as you. I would love to know more about your pumps and plumbing.

I have salifert test kits for Nitrates, PO4 and CAL. I know I need to get a KH and MAG kit but anything else?

What are you using for cooling? IME Set up your chiller or fans to come on and pull it down about a .5* before it shuts off.

With testing there are the trifecta that you need to keep your eye on.

Calcium, KH & Mg. Salifert works great for these (Kh not so much lately)

Once you get your MG to an appropriate level (up for debate, I like 1400-1500) it pretty much stays up there without supplimentation, especially if you aren't using a salt low in MG.

That leaves you with Ca & KH. The main two params that you should concern yourself with. These are the two parts of a two part program and are the main two parts that get released into your system if your using a Ca reactor. Get your DKH stable and above 8 (again up for debate) and your Ca above 400 and stable and vola. You've got yourself on the road to a happy reef tank.

Or at least a good start on an expensive addiction.

 

[Bacchus_fl]

I already order the test kits and will let you know once I am able to test. Amazingly I have had many tanks over the years and have never tested for either of these things. I also never kept sps and I was using a 2 part.

For cooling I have 2 120mm threma controlled fans blowing over my MHs and 3 80mm fans pulling air in from 3 of the 5 3.5" ports
in the top of the canopy.

What make and model circulating pumps are you using?

 

[jay24k]

I might have to get rid of him. He's getting big .

While it could be temp, I have a 3 degree swing and if I recall, I believe there was a study that shows temp swings didn't cause as much harm as people thought. But I can't recall where that was stated.

I don't know if Marcye has one or not but I'd check aroudn for a colorimeter(sp) as they can accurately give you a PO4 reading. I get quite a bit of algae on my glass and I have to clean it twice a week. However my colors stay very vivid. I do notice where I have much less flow from being in obscure places, the corals aren't as vivid when moved more toward the center.

It's one of those things that are tough to figure out. A buddy of mine foudn out his issue and it was his water supply. Even though his RO/DI filtered it out to 0 TDS, until he moved near me, his corals looked bad. Now they are popping and growing VERY quickly.

 

[markandkristen]

another thought might be to move the coral around if possible. sounds like your doing everything right.
i have read numerous things on temp swings and have seen both sides of the argument. it is very wierd how some are doing well while others arent. that kinda makes me wonder if it is really water quality... sounds like something else.

 

[Me No Nemo]

Just a couple notes I've discovered: my colors are best when my phosphates are 0, my temps are about 77-79, without too much swing. I also feed mine pretty heavily and stock my pods frequently. One of the best foods I've found for SPS is the live spawn from copepods as the micron size is so tiny they can feed even very small polyps. A good healthy refugium can, in my experience, be one of the best tools towards keeping your tank clean and feeding your corals and fish. Adding a few drops of Selcon every other day helps to gut load the pods and keep them fat and healthy...more likely to spawn.
I keep my calcium at 480-500, but I have lots of coral sucking it up. I keep my mag at 1500+ and Alk at about 11 or 12. I do have a colorimeter if you need an accurate PO4 check. Also, Iodine can be very easily overdosed and is hard to accurately test. If you are using a good salt and doing regular water changes, my experience is to stay away from Iodine dosing. You talk about leathers in the tank. How many and can they be causing problems in the tank? "Chemical warfare" is often cited as a reason why true SPS keepers nix the leathers from their tanks. Also, keep in mind that many of the aquacultured acros coming in from Figi and some of the other islands will caste off their color during shipping and will take several weeks to several months, depending on type, to color back up. Trying to force the color under high light will often cause bleaching and tissue loss, so new corals may be best moving from lower light to higher light over a matter of several weeks/months.

 

[waterfaller1]

First, stop dosing iodine. It is very easy to overdose and test kits for it are innacurate. Water changes are enough to replace iodine and other elements such as this. You said your numbers are in check but you don't have a test kit for alk? I think you are going to find your alk is low. PO4 will cause greening at the base of your corals before they brown out. I say it's the alk. You also said you have never tested for it, but never kept sps. Color does'nt usually drop out of soft corals or lps for low alk, but it will in sps. Are you running your fuge opposite day hours?

 

[Bacchus_fl]

I am not sure what a colorimeter is, is the Salifert PO4 test kit not adequate? I have not stocked any pods in my Fuge but it has visable life crawling ans swimming around in it. I am also not familiar with Selcon. Unfortunately I live a long way away from all the good LFS in Orlando and spend most of my time between ST Augustine and Titusville, none of these places carry much outside of the basics.

I am also not sure what is considered a "quality" salt. I just started making my own salt about 6 months ago when it became to much of a hassle to pick up enough water to do changes on a 125G tank. I am using Instant Ocean. I know that it isn't the most expensive but does that mean it is not good quality?

I have 4 leathers but they are spaced out pretty well and none are close to my sps. I have a mixed reef with about 40 corals of all types, softies, LPS, and SPS.

Waterfaller my numbers are in check as far as Amonia, Trites, Trates, PH, Ca, SG, and PO4 but I have not been testing for KH or Mag on a regular basis. I ordered test kits last night so hopefully I will be able to let you know what those levels are in a few days.

Is there anything I can do to bump my ALK in the mean time? Let only LPS I have that is losing color is a VERY large fogspawn that is about 16" wide and 12" deep. It has developed a semi clear section of about 4 or 5 large polyps. The tips are still green but the rest of it is almost turning white, not in the bleaching sence becuase the base is still healthy and the polyps are fully extended. I wish I knew how to post pics.

Also I am not sure I understand what you mean by running my fuge "opposite day hours"?

You guys are extremely helpful ThanksYou!

 

[cham]

Salifert P04 kit will tell you higher levels of P04, a colorimeter is a lab grade equipment to test. Stop by SITC one day. She is completely set up to service SPSers.

IO is a decent salt. Salt is one of the long debates that everyone seems to have their preference. It is low in Ca & Mg so if your willing to boost those levels when you make up batches of water then you will be just fine.

Leathers, like anemones can start chemical warfare battles between them in the tank releasing toxins to fight one another.

Do not adjust or raise the level of anything in your tank without being able to test for it first. Another good reason not to use the chemical cocktails known as essential elements.

Reverse photo period on your fuge, as in fuge lights on when display lights go out.

 

[cham]

Read this:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1179702&goto=newpost

 

[waterfaller1]

Agreed. Also..alkalinity in balance with Ca and MG is the most important test you should have, if keeping sps. Leathers can cause problems as Cham said, research allelopathy or chemical warfare between corals. I would'nt use IO for anything but a fish tank, but that's me.

 

[ben&bobbi]

Are you using Instant Ocean, or Reef Crystals. I 've read where many have said IO, since RC is made by IO. I have to agree just original IO would be for fish only. RC is good for reef, that's what i just switched to from Tropic Marin Pro due to price.

colorimeter is a very accurate type of medical level equipment.

so you come by titusville often? we live just off 95 in mims.

 

[Bacchus_fl]

I use the original IO and am about half way through the bucket so when it is up I will switch to a RC. I also switched my Fuge lights to run opposite. Is there any other advantage to doing this other than to reduce heat? (It is a great idea for reducing heat though.)

I also wouldn't mind getting rid of most of my leathers if somebody wants to buy or trade for them. I will start a new thread for that though.


I will wait for my test kits to arrive before doing anything. I am not in any danger or losing these corals am I?


I do go to Titusville every 2 weeks usually on a Tues or Thurs but this week I will be down there on Fri.

 

[cham]

When cheato is exposed to light it photosynthises and expelles O2. That in turn will help keep your PH up overnight.

 

[Bacchus_fl]

Wow...thats pretty cool. I wondered how people kept their ph up overnight without using a Ca Reactor.

Also I just rechecked my PO4 again using the higher sensitivity test and it gave me a reading of 1.5 ppm which is really high so that very well could be my problem. I added in about 1.5 cups of Phosguard. Is there anything else I should do to get this down and keep it down? Should I get a PhosReactor? Also how long do you guys use your Phosguard before disgarding it?

 

[cham]

1. Ca Reactor typically lowers PH, not the other way around.

2. P04 isn't maybe your problem at 1.5ppm. Its definately your problem, or part of.

3. IIRC Phosguard uses aluminum and has been linked to coral irritation. Find a good Granular Ferric Oxide (GFO)

4. Add phosphate binders SLOWLY over time. You don't want to yank your P04 down too fast. That is also good advice with other parameters. Make all changes very slowly.

5. There is no time table that fits binders. They need to be changed once they are exhausted. You can tell by testing the water with a colorimeter or keeping an eye on your tank.


How do you not have any algea with 1.5 ppm of phosphate?


Don't mean to hog the thread. Others please join in

 

[Bacchus_fl]

Not sure what IIRC is but Seachem is the maker of the Phosguard I'm using. I don't know why I don't have any algea growing other than my macros which grown like wildfire.

I don't even have to clean the glass but every 3 or so days.

Can you name a good GFO? Since I am so far away from most LFS I have to buy the majority of my stuff on line.

Cham I am also interested in the PO4 reactor you are using and your pumps.

I think I am just going to post a wish list on here and see if anybody has some of the equipment I need laying around.

 

[cham]

IIRC is If I recall Correctly

As I understand from the chemistry guys, all GFO's are good. Some perform better than others, but if you are using a GFO product then its fine.

I use a phosban reactor, there are several made similar to that.

 

[sytanek]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10509842#post10509842 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cham
IIRC is If I recall Correctly

I always wondered what that meant. lol

 

[waterfaller1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10510415#post10510415 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sytanek
I always wondered what that meant. lol

Me too..