Critique my Proposed QT Process

[AEIOU9]

So I got a few fish from LA on Saturday and they seem to be doing well in the QT (swimming around nicely, no heavy breathing & eating very well). Here is what I am thinking of doing for my treatment:

1. Give the fish 1 week to settle in before starting treatment
2. Dose Paraguard for 3 weeks
3. Dose Cupramine for 3 weeks
4. Run carbon to remove meds
5. Observe for 2 more weeks before adding to DT

Any suggestions? Also, I'm assuming that if I run carbon with Paraguard it will cut down the efficiency of the medication - is that true?

 

[W1ngz]

Carbon and any other chemical filtration will cut down the effectiveness of medications. Removing impurities and metals is what it's meant for. I'd run carbon for a few days in between meds.

Personally I wouldn't medicate at all if it's not necessary. If you're prepared to maintain QT for 8 weeks, you'll have lots of time to observe and decide what NEEDS to be done, instead of trying to do everything hoping to hit something.

Look into tank transfer methods and decide if it's for you (as in fits your schedule, resources and commitment level). It's the technically superior method against parasites. There are some purists on here who will vilify you if you do anything less than that.

 

[oakengineer]

Personally I wouldn't medicate at all if it's not necessary. If you're prepared to maintain QT for 8 weeks, you'll have lots of time to observe and decide what NEEDS to be done, instead of trying to do everything hoping to hit something.

This. Copper is an irritant to the fish, so you only want to use if if you have to. If you want to treat prophetically, I hear Prazipro is good.

 

[inetmug]

Cuprimine for 12 or 14 days is enough, you want to dose it correctly, get the seachem or salifert test kit.

Prazipro is a very good product.

When we collect, we do the prazipro, and the cuprimine if we suspect anything. We find the prazipro/flukes to be the more prevalent issue with wild caught fish.

Both are meds, no carbon/rocks/sand during the process. Prepare for water changes every 2nd or 3rd day. And get yourself a bubbler in there. All those meds make the O2 go down, and keep the tank at 80-82 degrees, things go faster.

Go slow on the Cuprimine, and FOLLOW the directions. Keep pre-treated cuprimine change water on hand, makes it way faster, and the level stays more constant.

 

[Zer0.]

I'm new to the hobby, however I am quarantining all fish. I am doing prazipro proactively. Like others said, copper is kinda hard on fish. So i plan on only doing cupramine if i see signs of ick.

 

[Deinonych]

Personally I wouldn't medicate at all if it's not necessary. If you're prepared to maintain QT for 8 weeks, you'll have lots of time to observe and decide what NEEDS to be done, instead of trying to do everything hoping to hit something.

Look into tank transfer methods and decide if it's for you (as in fits your schedule, resources and commitment level). It's the technically superior method against parasites.

+1

Tank Transfer is the most effective way to prevent Cryptocaryon (ich) from entering your system. It does not prevent other parasites like Amyloodinium (velvet) or Brooklynella, but those usually present themselves after a few weeks and can be treated if so.

For new fish, my protocol is as follows:
Days 1-3: Acclimation to new tank, ensure feeding well
Days 4-14: Two rounds of PraziPro (5 days each with WC in between)
Days 15-28: Tank transfer
Days 29+: 1-2 weeks of observation, then move to DT

 

[Zer0.]

For new fish, my protocol is as follows:
Days 1-3: Acclimation to new tank, ensure feeding well
Days 4-14: Two rounds of PraziPro (5 days each with WC in between)
Days 15-28: Tank transfer
Days 29+: 1-2 weeks of observation, then move to DT

Hey Deinonych, Im in the beginning of my first prazipro treatment. How big of a WC do you do between? I didnt know if this stuff breaks down after 5 or so days or if you have to export it out. Also, do you give the fish a break in between? like a day or two of no prazi?

Thanks.

 

[Deinonych]

Hey Deinonych, Im in the beginning of my first prazipro treatment. How big of a WC do you do between? I didnt know if this stuff breaks down after 5 or so days or if you have to export it out. Also, do you give the fish a break in between? like a day or two of no prazi?

Thanks.

Not a huge one - usually 20-25%. I usually do back-to-back 5-day treatments and have never seen any ill effect by doing so. As long as you dose Prazi correctly, the fish don't really seem to notice. Only time I've ever had a problem was when I accidentally overdosed a flasher wrasse. He became somewhat listless, but turned around after a large water change.

The reason for two Prazi treatments is to ensure you kill any offspring that hatch from eggs (Prazi doesn't affect eggs).

 

[wooden_reefer]

So I got a few fish from LA on Saturday and they seem to be doing well in the QT (swimming around nicely, no heavy breathing & eating very well). Here is what I am thinking of doing for my treatment:

1. Give the fish 1 week to settle in before starting treatment
2. Dose Paraguard for 3 weeks
3. Dose Cupramine for 3 weeks
4. Run carbon to remove meds
5. Observe for 2 more weeks before adding to DT

Any suggestions? Also, I'm assuming that if I run carbon with Paraguard it will cut down the efficiency of the medication - is that true?

Carbon in QT is specifically to remove unwanted medication.

Robustly cycled medium is necessary.

The duration of treatment is too short to be rather sure of eradication of ich.

Are you prepared for outbreak of external bacterial infection during QT?

 

[Deinonych]

Carbon in QT is specifically to remove unwanted medication.

Robustly cycled medium is necessary.

The duration of treatment is too short to be rather sure of eradication of ich.

Are you prepared for outbreak of external bacterial infection during QT?

Agree on the first two points. On the third point, if he does tank transfer, crypto can be eliminated in 12 days.

You seem to bring this up a lot, but I don't see bacterial infection as a major concern in QT. It's always good to have broad-spectrum antibiotics on hand (Furan-2 and kanamycin should cover most infections), but I have to say I have only had to deal with bacterial infections once or twice in the last couple of years. Then again, I keep my QT water quality high so maybe that's why.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Agree on the first two points. On the third point, if he does tank transfer, crypto can be eliminated in 12 days.

You seem to bring this up a lot, but I don't see bacterial infection as a major concern in QT. It's always good to have broad-spectrum antibiotics on hand (Furan-2 and kanamycin should cover most infections), but I have to say I have only had to deal with bacterial infections once or twice in the last couple of years. Then again, I keep my QT water quality high so maybe that's why.

May be the species of fish you are interested is less vulnerble to bacteria infection.

If you study the SOS posts on bacterial infection you should know that it is a real concern, possibly second after ich.

Antibiotics has two serious problems. First, one may not work on that bacteria. Second, all have some impact on nitrification. All said, antibiotics are useful. I ask the op also with the intension of making sure that he has some on hand and understand how to use them.

UV is the first defense, however.

Excellent water chemical quality has little impact on ich, and for the same reason can have little impact on some bacterial infection. The concentration of waterborne pathogenic bacteria can be very high irrespective of chemcial water quality. The tank is a closed system both chemically and pathogenically.

Have you seen tank wide bacterial infection against which an antibiotic is not effective? Very sorry sight.

 

[AEIOU9]

Carbon in QT is specifically to remove unwanted medication.

Robustly cycled medium is necessary.

The duration of treatment is too short to be rather sure of eradication of ich.

Are you prepared for outbreak of external bacterial infection during QT?

Wooden I only have Paraguard & Cupramine. I thought Paraguard handles bacterial infections?

If not I've read up on a few other Seachem products - Focus, Metronidazole & Kanaplex. Would one of these be better?

Also you mentioned that the treatment is too short for eradication of ich - what should I adjust to manage that?

 

[wooden_reefer]

"If not I've read up on a few other Seachem products - Focus, Metronidazole & Kanaplex. Would one of these be better?

Also you mentioned that the treatment is too short for eradication of ich - what should I adjust to manage that?"

Kanamycin is one of the best for saltwater because it is rather effective against many bacteria and its impact on nitrification is not as severe as some other.

Hint: Say if an antibiotic reduces nitrification by 80%. If you add it to a tank which has mere balanced nitrification (the bioload just matches with the nitrification bacterial population), then there will be ammonia. If you have cycled the medium in QT to 10-20 times more bacteria than needed for equilbrium and then use it in QT, even 80% reduction will still be enough.

If copper or CP or hypo works 100%, then four weeks should be enough. But there likley is a chance that a few waterborne ich could escape and get attached to the fish. More than one ich cycle in duration is needed.

I generally QT for 12 weeks min, but I cannot say that this is necessary. I just do so because it is easy to wait when little needs to be done during this period, and have never seen ich again. May be eight weeks is enough, I can't say.

But if ich infestation in DT is a reality, then the fallow period for the DT is 12 weeks or more.

Metronidazole is also handle to have.

The subject of UV is lengthy to discuss. I always use it for the first three months after fish arrive. A properly set up UV reduces external bacterial infection significantly, perhaps by 70-80%. UV degrades many drugs and cannot be used when such is used. UV is mostly preventive, but is very useful.