Cupramine and sand?

[FishN00b83]

I had an Ich outbreak in my main tank a long time ago. I decided the only way to really take care of this was to go fallow for 15 weeks. I setup a 55g QT and cycled it (fishless) with 20lbs of sand, a few big PVC elbows/pipes, nano PH, a HOB filter (empty, just for more flow), and a heater. After the cycle was over I put all the fish from the 180 in to the 55. I didn't have a lot of fish left from the Ich outbreak (just 4 small tangs and a 2 inch clown).

Is it OK to keep 20lbs of sand in the QT for bacteria purposes? How are you supposed to keep the bio filter going and not have anything for it to populate on? I dosed the cupramine for the first time last night. I am going to do the second dose tomorrow night (the directions say wait 48 hours) then I was going to test daily. Reading the .pdf on the Seachem website says it sand will not absorb cupramine, but reading some of these labels can be comical (rid-ich comes to mind).

 

[Deinonych]

Copper will adsorb to sand, making it difficult to maintain the therapeutic concentration. Using an inert ceramic substrate (like Seachem Matrix) in a HOB filter will enable the biofilter to function properly. Seed with a bacteria-in-a-bottle product like Bio-spira.

Alternatively, you could do TTM (much more effective than copper) on the remaining fish; with 5 fish I would do two separate groups.

 

[FishN00b83]

Copper will adsorb to sand, making it difficult to maintain the therapeutic concentration. Using an inert ceramic substrate (like Seachem Matrix) in a HOB filter will enable the biofilter to function properly. Seed with a bacteria-in-a-bottle product like Bio-spira.

Alternatively, you could do TTM (much more effective than copper) on the remaining fish; with 5 fish I would do two separate groups.

I actually have a box of Seachem Matrix, I didn't know I could use that. The QT is already fully cycled and the fish are in (with the copper). Would adding the Matrix and removing some sand every week be OK? How long of a period should I do this over?

 

[tklb]

Question on this topic, I know that Aragonite Sand will absorb copper, cupermine, etc, but will silica sand absorb it as well?

If so, could you put matrix as your substrate? Sorry, I don't know anything about Matrix, as I have never used it.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Deinonych]

I actually have a box of Seachem Matrix, I didn't know I could use that. The QT is already fully cycled and the fish are in (with the copper). Would adding the Matrix and removing some sand every week be OK? How long of a period should I do this over?

It would probably take several weeks to thoroughly seed the Matrix without active supplementing (i.e. Bio-spira). By that time, the treatment period would be complete. At this point, I would just stay the course with copper (although I don't recommend using copper in any form) and test twice a day to ensure you are maintaining the therapeutic concentration.

Question on this topic, I know that Aragonite Sand will absorb copper, cupermine, etc, but will silica sand absorb it as well?

If so, could you put matrix as your substrate? Sorry, I don't know anything about Matrix, as I have never used it.

Thanks in advance.

To my understanding, silica sand will not adsorb copper (molecules adsorb to surfaces, not absorb). Matrix is a ceramic-based substrate and can be used in lieu of sand.

http://www.seachem.com/matrix.php

 

[tklb]

Great, thanks Deinonych, that was my understanding as well, but wanted a 2nd opinion. I will check out Matrix

 

[FishN00b83]

It would probably take several weeks to thoroughly seed the Matrix without active supplementing (i.e. Bio-spira). By that time, the treatment period would be complete. At this point, I would just stay the course with copper (although I don't recommend using copper in any form) and test twice a day to ensure you are maintaining the therapeutic concentration.

I don't like copper either but it seems to be a effective way of getting rid of ich. I have done TTM in the past and it has worked, but I really don't even want to question it. I want to make sure it's gone so I don't have to go through this again.




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[ThRoewer]

I would only use copper against velvet, and only if pipefish, seahorses or wrasses are to be treated.
For ich TTM or hyposalinity or ideally both together are easier (on you and the fish) and more reliable.
Under certain conditions I actually had even good results with doing nothing if it was a low level ich infection - though I would not recommend this approach unless you are very experienced and can restrain yourself from overstocking your tank.

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[ThRoewer]

As for the silica sand - it's fine in a QT or HT, but I would suggest not to use it in a DT as it may release silicon to the water which could kick off a diatom bloom.

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