curing vs cycling

[stingeragent]

After the cycle, the nitrates won't be 0. They will be high, which is why you do the water change. It's impossible to have a cycle and have 0 nitrates at the end. Nitrates are the end product of the cycle. Are you trolling or something? This concept is really not as hard as you are making it. Ammonia gets converted to nitrites, which then goes to nitrates. If you have 0 nitrates at the end, you never had a cycle. The premise of the nitrogen cycle itself 100% guarantees you will have nitrates at the end.

 

[Quiet_Ivy]

But back to your original question, when you hear the term "curing" it means preparing rock, when you hear the term "cycling" it means preparing the aquarium, that is the real difference between the two. Yes both utilize the nitrogen cycle if that is what you are wondering.

On these boards, if someone says they're curing rock they're usually:

a)soaking man made rock in ro water until it stops affecting pH
b)treating rock that's leaching a whackload of phosphates
c)trying to kill of aiptasia/algae/space aliens by cutting off light for greatly extended periods.

What we really need are better terms for live rock. We've got manmade rock that's never been in a tank, rock that was live but has dried out, formerly dry rock (man made or natural) that someone cycled in a tub, rocks pulled from a reef, rocks that someone dug up or made then stuck in the ocean..

(is dead live rock when really old bands go on tour?)
ivy

 

[Quiet_Ivy]

no ammonia can show up in dry man made rock since there was no die off to begin with right? it would have be manually be added? also from what you're saying curing and cycling is the same?

Right. There has to be something organic on the rock, or added to the tank, to provide ammonia. That can be as simple as fish food, a dead deli shrimp, or bottled ammonia. This discussion is using curing and cycling to mean the same thing, yes.

Ivy (this is giving me taxonomy class flashbacks, lol)

 

[Johnb123]

After the cycle, the nitrates won't be 0. They will be high, which is why you do the water change. It's impossible to have a cycle and have 0 nitrates at the end. Nitrates are the end product of the cycle. Are you trolling or something? This concept is really not as hard as you are making it. Ammonia gets converted to nitrites, which then goes to nitrates. If you have 0 nitrates at the end, you never had a cycle. The premise of the nitrogen cycle itself 100% guarantees you will have nitrates at the end.

i'm not trolling i thought live rock lowers nitrates to zero anyway without dirt added to the tank but i guess a water change just speeds it up

 

[stingeragent]

Live rock doesn't do anything for nitrate. Rock in itself does nothing. It's the bacteria that colonizes it that does something. There is a bacteria that turns ammonia to nitrite. There is a different bacteria that turns nitrite to nitrate. That's where it stops. Traditionally to rid the nitrate from your system you do water changes. There is also vodka/vinegar dosing, bio pellet reactors, etc that remove nitrate. The live rock itself won't do anything for nitrate. It will just build up over time. That's why you have to do water changes to manually remove it, or use one of the methods I mentioned to remove it. Vinegar/vodka dosing/ biopellet reactors, create a bacteria that remove nitrate, but if you don't use one of those methods, that bacteria won't exist.

 

[Johnb123]

Live rock doesn't do anything for nitrate. Rock in itself does nothing. It's the bacteria that colonizes it that does something. There is a bacteria that turns ammonia to nitrite. There is a different bacteria that turns nitrite to nitrate. That's where it stops. Traditionally to rid the nitrate from your system you do water changes. There is also vodka/vinegar dosing, bio pellet reactors, etc that remove nitrate. The live rock itself won't do anything for nitrate. It will just build up over time. That's why you have to do water changes to manually remove it, or use one of the methods I mentioned to remove it.

yes but the bacteria on the live rock lowers nitrates if the bioload is less than its capacity doesn't it?

 

[stingeragent]

No. The bacteria from the nitrogen cycle has no effect on nitrate. I just edited my post at the end of page 1. Nitrate is the end result of the nitrogen cycle. It stops there. The nitrogen cycle continues, and the end result nitrate will continue to pile up. Vinegar/vodka dosing, or bio pellet reactors will produce a bacteria that can process the nitrate. However, if you don't introduce one of those systems, the "typical" nitrogen cycle won't produce them, and you will be left with nitrate. Ultimately, whatever way you choose, you are left with nitrate. It is up to you how you export it. Water changes, dosing, reactors, etc.

 

[mcozad829]

No. The bacteria from the nitrogen cycle has no effect on nitrate. I just edited my post at the end of page 1.

This is correct as far as the basic nitrogen cycle is concerned. There are ways to stimulate anaerobic (i think) bacteria to process nitrates into nitrogen gas, however that is an advanced topic and involves carbon dosing, deep sand beds, etc..., it is addressed in the reef chemistry forum. For beginning purposes just know that nitrates are the end of the nitrogen cycle and they need to be removed from the tank via water changes.

 

[Johnb123]

a skimmer removes proteins before waste turns into ammonia - nitrites - nitrates right so a skimmer could work too?

 

[stingeragent]

Yes a skimmer can and will help. But they are not the cure all. Even with a highly efficient skimmer you can have nitrate/PO4 issues. I feel you are overthinking this whole thing. Do you have a tank setup, or just in the planning stages or what?

 

[mcozad829]

a skimmer removes proteins before waste turns into ammonia - nitrites - nitrates right so a skimmer could work too?

Yes, a skimmer is a very effective means of removing waste before it enters the nitrogen cycle, however it is not 100%. There will still be a need for a cycled biological filter and removing nitrates from the system. Think of it as a Skimmer only helps but doesn't do all of the work.

 

[Johnb123]

i have like 0 nitrates for 2 months now yes i'm due for a water change however all i have are live rock and a skimmer so i thought my rock was removing the nitrates unless the skimmer is doing all the work? or anaerobically the rock deep inside is

 

[stingeragent]

PM'd you.

 

[Johnb123]

PM'd you.

responded

 

[mcozad829]

i have like 0 nitrates for 2 months now yes i'm due for a water change however all i have are live rock and a skimmer so i thought my rock was removing the nitrates unless the skimmer is doing all the work? or anaerobically the rock deep inside is

Do you have any fish in the system? Have you ever registered any ammonia? Have you added ammonia to the tank in any way? i.e. fish food, shrimp, etc?

 

[Johnb123]

Do you have any fish in the system? Have you ever registered any ammonia? Have you added ammonia to the tank in any way? i.e. fish food, shrimp, etc?

yes a tang, 2 clowns, blenny, 4 anthias

 

[mcozad829]

yes a tang, 2 clowns, blenny, 4 anthias

How old is the system? and how large?

 

[Johnb123]

How old is the system? and how large?

80 gallons yes i know a little small for a tang but he's small and it's 5 months old. i bought live rock when i set it up so i never needed to learn about the nitrogen cycle however i'm beginning another set up with dry rock and wanted to learn the nitrogen cycle this time around

 

[mcozad829]

OK, well are your questions answered? Im not hearing that there is any issue with your current tank, and I think you have a good grasp on what to expect with your dry rock cycle... Good luck to you in your new tank, if you need anything feel free to PM me.

 

[Johnb123]

yeah i just wanted to know the difference from curing and cycling lol