Custom Cabinet for 90g Reef (Build Thread)

[ccampo]

An small extra return pump for the chiller only would be too much water returned to the DT compared to the overflow capacity ? if that's the case the water returned from the chiller can be returned back to the sump but near where the Eheim sucks the water, that way the return pump gets cold and warm water without affecting the current ratio overflow/return and more important without affecting your pump by decreasing the size of the hose.

 

[RedEDGE2k1]

I think doing that would cause the chiller's temperature controller to think the water in the display tank is colder than it really is, and would turn off before the full water capacity of the system is at the correct temperature. For example, the return area of my sump might be 78° while the main tank is still at 80° or so. Whereas if the chiller is plumbed in line with the return, only water that has looped through the entire system makes it to the chiller. Therefore, the warmest water is in the chiller/temp controller.

Make sense, or am I just confusing everyone with my babbling?

 

[rick rottet]

what you say makes sense to me, and i was going to suggest the same idea as ccampo........

do you have a way to plumb a separate 1/2" overflow? i.e., will the chiller run by gravity from an overflow and then into the sump?
can it be made to work like a closed loop off the display?
where/how do most other people plumb their chillers... ?

 

[RedEDGE2k1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11905016#post11905016 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rick rottet
do you have a way to plumb a separate 1/2" overflow? i.e., will the chiller run by gravity from an overflow and then into the sump?
can it be made to work like a closed loop off the display?
where/how do most other people plumb their chillers... ?

I have seen chillers plumbed in-line with the return most often. This is how I have planned to do mine, but wasn't aware how small the inlet/outlet of the chiller is (1/2" compared to 3/4" on the Eheim return pump).

In a few cases folks use a seperate pump in the sump that's dedicated to the chiller, kinda like he just suggested. I don't want to go that route, because it doesn't give the chiller's temp controller and accurate reading of the display tank temperature. Also, I'd have to buy another reliable/quiet 300-600gph pump ($100) which would mean more money and another pump heating up the water.

I don't know if it's standard to plumb a chiller in-line with the overflow/drain plumbing...seems to me that all the air being mixed in with the drain through the Durso standpipe might have a negative affect on the efficiency/temp reading of the chiller. But that's just a hunch, I have nothing to back that theory. And adding a 2nd overflow is just more work than I want to do, and to me it sounds like a flood waiting to happen, or at the least a chiller that isn't getting a steady flow of water @ 300gph minimum (as required for this chiller).

 

[adam82]

hi, i just saw yuor thread. very nice!!!

 

[rick rottet]

sounds like you're pretty limited on your options.

one last try... a powerhead in the sump (300 - 600 gph can be found for about $30 at most any LFS), pulling from in sump close to the overflow, through the chiller, but returning to the last chamber for the return pump to send it right up to the display.

 

[Ratkiller]

I've been tagging along as well. This might sound like a a stupid question but isn't there an temp adjustment on the chiller? If so then couldn't you go with the idea of a seperate pump, pulling from the inlet chamber of your sump and adjust the temp (ie colder) to match what you want to be returned to the outlet part of the sump, then returned with the Ehim to your display tank.

 

[Ratkiller]

Rick- that's what i'm thinking.

 

[RedEDGE2k1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11912077#post11912077 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rick rottet
one last try... a powerhead in the sump (300 - 600 gph can be found for about $30 at most any LFS), pulling from in sump close to the overflow, through the chiller, but returning to the last chamber for the return pump to send it right up to the display.

It won't work that way. You can't use a seperate pump to move water from one end of the sump to the other (the overflow chamber to the return chamber). Only the main return pump can move water through the sump overall in order for the sump and its baffles/chambers to work properly.

It's possible to use a seperate chiller pump and locate it either in the overflow area of the sump, or in the return area of the sump. However, the water must be taken from and returned to the same area, in order for the sump to work properly (particularly the float switch controlling my fresh water reservoir, which is in the return chamber). And if you do this, you're essentially chilling one tiny part of your system, not the system as a whole. It will work and eventually chill the entire system, but not without the chiller turning on & off every 20 seconds.

Make sense?

 

[RedEDGE2k1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11912103#post11912103 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ratkiller
I've been tagging along as well. This might sound like a a stupid question but isn't there an temp adjustment on the chiller? If so then couldn't you go with the idea of a seperate pump, pulling from the inlet chamber of your sump and adjust the temp (ie colder) to match what you want to be returned to the outlet part of the sump, then returned with the Ehim to your display tank.

I could do that, but then I would have to constantly measure the temperature of the main display vs. temperature setting of the chiller...and that defeats the purpose of having a temperature controller. I should be able to set the chiller to 78°F or whatever and have it maintain the ENTIRE system's volume of water at that temperature, plus or minus a degree or two.

The only way to do that efficiently is to plumb the chiller in line with the return pump. I was just looking for evidence that plumbing an expensive 900gph pump with 1/2" pipe won't harm the pump or drastically reduce flow to my display tank.

 

[Ratkiller]

Sorry I can't offer any advise on your expensive return pump, but I'm sure it will drasticly reduce the flow to your tank.

I'm really curious about your sump, can you post pics? I promise I won't through out any more ideas. But I'm thinking about a chiller for my system and would like to see your complete setup. Thanks.

 

[RedEDGE2k1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11913694#post11913694 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ratkiller
Sorry I can't offer any advise on your expensive return pump, but I'm sure it will drasticly reduce the flow to your tank.

I'm really curious about your sump, can you post pics? I promise I won't through out any more ideas. But I'm thinking about a chiller for my system and would like to see your complete setup. Thanks.

Haha no worries, I like suggestions.

These are the only pics I have of the sump:

 

[hammer294]

What kind of ATO are you using if you dont mind me asking? Also, how do you like it?

 

[RedEDGE2k1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11914375#post11914375 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hammer294
What kind of ATO are you using if you dont mind me asking? Also, how do you like it?

I bought the $39 kit from Aquahub:
http://www.aquahub.com/store/product26.html

The kit comes with everything you need except a pump and plumbing. The double pipe you see going into the sump is an anti-siphon device I threw together to prevent the water reserve from emptying itself into the sump after the siphon starts. The 2nd pipe is capped at the top and has a hole drilled in it to allow air to be sucked in, breaking the siphon.

It's working well thus far. I like having the backup float switch, in case the primary switch fails or gets stuck in the "on" position. That happened with my old 30g reef and I came home to about 10 gallons of water under my carpet floors. Not fun.

 

[Ratkiller]

Sorry I can't resist: tell me again why you can't do something like this? useing a small pump (red).

 

[rick rottet]

i'm not sure i understand why that wont work either. it seems like all of the same water would still be in the sump, you just momentarily by-pass the baffles with some of it. the return pump still seems like it would control the overall flow through the sump as a whole. it sure doesnt look like that would affect the flow from the return through the display and across the overflow back to the sump.
i'll be the first to say i have never run a sump on any of my tanks, and i've sure not tried to bypass baffles with an extra pump either, and my brain doesnt always "get it" until i try it and see it doesnt work lol.

 

[Ratkiller]

It would decrease the amount of water going through the baffels, but as long as the small pump was not pumping out the same amount of water that was being dumped into the sump to begain with, the rest would pass through the baffles into the retun area. The flow would be much slower making the baffles more benifical. But you would have to add more water into the system to maintain your level in the retun area as well.

 

[jefnalyssa]

I'm not speaking from experience. What Ratkiller says makes sense to me.

 

[RedEDGE2k1]

It won't work because the return section of the sump (right side) would be receiving more water than the overflow section (left side).

I'll try toexplain why this is so:

The overflow section is being filled at the same rate as the return pump is pumping water out of the return section and up to the tank. Let's say that rate is 500gph. So, the return pump is moving 500gph from the return section, into it to the display tank, causing 500gph to spill into the overflow and back to the sump. The amount of water going into the overflow section (left) is the exact same amount of water leaving the return section (right).

If you place a pump in the overflow section and pump water to the return section, the two sides of the sump nolonger have balanced flow. The pump will cause the return section of the sump to have a higher water level than the overflow area...and chambered sumps don't work that way.

Is this making sense?

 

[rick rottet]

hmmmmm...
i can grasp that the overflow section would be filled at the same rate as the return pump is pushing water back up to the display.
then the little chiller pump would pull some of this overflow water, so wouldnt the level flowing over the baffles just be thinner? (i.e. less water moving through the baffles... but still flowing through the main part of the sump and going to the return?) then the rest of the water going through the chiller (which was in the overflow chamber to begin with) is just bypassing the baffles, but being sent back to the return area.
the total amount from the overflow seems like it would just be split between the baffles and the chiller.........but still ending up in the return


did you consider setting the chiller up like a closed loop on the display tank? could do an "over the rim" loop if drilling is not an option.