sra_chipmunk
Member
I know you have heard it allot already but your tank stand is amazing for a DIY. You have serious wood working skills. You wanna build me one now? 
Custom Cabinet for 90g Reef (Build Thread)
- Thread starter RedEDGE2k1
- Start date
RedEDGE2k1
Member
If you pump water from the overflow section to the return section, for any reason, you may as well get rid of the baffles altogether since you're pumping air bubbles around them to and into the return section.
rick rottet
reefkeeper// propagator
what if you had the water coming back from the chiller dump into the area after the first baffle, then the chiller wouldnt receive chilled water, and the total volume would still flow through the baffles?
ccampo
ORCA Web*****
Sucking and dumping the water from/to the return pump was my first idea, having the output from the chiller very close where the return pump sucks the water, water is coming and returning to the same return area so no problems with the baffles, of course this has to be tested adjusting the thermostat to keep the DT's temperature at the desired degree fi the chiller thinks the water is already cold.
Lots of ideas, seems like the best option would be to exchange the chiller with another one that have the hoses the same diameter as the return pump, that way no need for another pump and no loss of water pressure.
Lots of ideas, seems like the best option would be to exchange the chiller with another one that have the hoses the same diameter as the return pump, that way no need for another pump and no loss of water pressure.
birkenstalkers
New member
Awesome thread. Just one quick thought. We cycle our RODI wastewater into our washing machine and use it for washing clothes.
Ratkiller
New member
I undertsand what your saying about the bubbles. But useing your example of 500gph worth of flow between the sump and the display. 500 dumping into the sump w/ skimmer and a little pump (@ 300 gph as you mention needed for the chiller) That leves 200gph to flow through the baffles (which is still plenty) to the retun area, where the 300gph will be coming back from the chiller to make a total again of 500gph for the retun to the diaplay. As for the bubbles you can dump in back in befor the last set of baffles, or use a sock, but I bet you won't even get any bubbles after it passes through the chiller.
I have looked at many systems with chillers and this is how they all do it. Besides the few that use a close loop as mentioned by rick. But if you still deside to tap into your main return line your going to extreamly reduce the flow going back in to display. Considering you have already done so by useing PVC 90's and by extending it all the way to the other side of the display.
Good luck with what you deside. I'll be following along.
I have looked at many systems with chillers and this is how they all do it. Besides the few that use a close loop as mentioned by rick. But if you still deside to tap into your main return line your going to extreamly reduce the flow going back in to display. Considering you have already done so by useing PVC 90's and by extending it all the way to the other side of the display.
Good luck with what you deside. I'll be following along.
RedEDGE2k1
Member
Amen brother....tonight I proved you're right with that statement.
I plumbed everything the way I originally intended -- 900gph return pump connected to the chiller with 1/2" tubing, then up to the main tank. I used 1/2" stuff because the inlet on the the chiller's nozzels is only 3/8" anyway....so I figured anything larger than 1/2" would be a waste. After it was all hooked up and turned on, the flow at the display tank return outlet was almost nothing. Literally a trickle of water was making it from the sump to the tank.
I did a little experiment and just looped the chiller back to the sump, and measured the flow into a gallon jug. It took my 900gph Eheim pump 28 seconds to move one gallon of water out of the sump, about 6' across the floor to the chiller's location, through the chiller, and 6' back to the sump. Max head is less than a foot. That's only 120gph....this is driving me crazy. I can't understand for the life of me how Pacific Coast expects you to get 300-600gph through this chiller with 1/2" tubing.
Am I missing something? The chiller is about 6' from the sump because I have it sitting in the corner of the room so it's not an eye sore. I don't think the extra 12' of tubing, round trip, is enough to drop the 900gph pump rating down 67%. Am I wrong?
The chiller's plastic inlets are removable; they screw onto 1" threads with a 5/8" hole in the middle. If I bump the tubing up to 5/8" and use PVC adapters in lieu of the stock inlets/outlets, will that be enough to boost the flow rate to above 300gph?
Obviously, I'll be buying a new pump to run the chiller, closed loop to the sump. My concern is what size pump to get? If the 900gph Eheim can't move 300gph to the chiller and back, I don't know what will. That's about the noise limit I want to go with...keep in mind the tank is in my living room.
Thanks for all the suggestions!
Dustin
ChemE
New member
Be careful you don't get such a large pump that it contributes nearly as much heat as the chiller is removing! Let me ask you, have you given any more thought to my suggestion of evaporative heat loss rather than a chiller?
So I'm crunching some quick numbers and the head loss associated with moving 600 gph of saltwater (assumed: T=80F, s.g. = 1.026) through 12' of 1/2" pipe is just over 24 ft of head. Keep in mind this is just the skin friction within the horizontal run of piping, I neglected all other form friction. Moving that piping up to 5/8" drops the skin friction contribution to 8.3 ft of head. It wouldn't quite be this low because you'll pay a slight price with two expansions (vena expanda) and two contractions (vena contracta) that I haven't included because I'm still on my first cup of coffee. If you really want to make the chiller work I can run some more careful numbers for you later today.
So I'm crunching some quick numbers and the head loss associated with moving 600 gph of saltwater (assumed: T=80F, s.g. = 1.026) through 12' of 1/2" pipe is just over 24 ft of head. Keep in mind this is just the skin friction within the horizontal run of piping, I neglected all other form friction. Moving that piping up to 5/8" drops the skin friction contribution to 8.3 ft of head. It wouldn't quite be this low because you'll pay a slight price with two expansions (vena expanda) and two contractions (vena contracta) that I haven't included because I'm still on my first cup of coffee. If you really want to make the chiller work I can run some more careful numbers for you later today.
RedEDGE2k1
Member
ChemE -- Sent you a PM. Thanks for your help!
RedEDGE2k1
Member
This is the same set of questions I directed to our resident expert (ChemE), but I'd love you guys' response also!
I just did the little experiment and placed the chiller right beside the sump, connected it to the 900gph Eheim pump and did a flow test. It filled a one gallon jug in 13 seconds, so roughly 275gph is flowing through the chiller. This compared to 120gph when the chiller was 6' away from the sump. This doesn't seem right to me...after hearing these results, do you guys think the chiller is primarily restricting the flow, or is it the 1/2" tubing? If it's the chiller, I'd like to return it but since I have opened/used it, the Premium Aquatics return policy won't allow the return/refunds. I also don't want to waste any more time/money at Home Depot buying larger tubing if the chiller's internal coil size is to blame....help!
I guess the underlying elementary question is -- if I have a 1/2" bottleneck (chiller), does it even matter what size pipe is supplying water to the chiller?
It seems to me like 1/2" tubing can't cut a high quality 900gph pump's flow by almost 70%......but then again, I don't know much about hydraulics. I did calculate the area of a 1/2" circle versus a 5/8" circle, and the 5/8" is about 1.6x larger. So, taking the simplest approach, can I expect to get 1.6x the flow of 1/2" tubing by replacing it with 5/8"? If that's the case, that totals 440gph and that would be darn near perfect.
I just did the little experiment and placed the chiller right beside the sump, connected it to the 900gph Eheim pump and did a flow test. It filled a one gallon jug in 13 seconds, so roughly 275gph is flowing through the chiller. This compared to 120gph when the chiller was 6' away from the sump. This doesn't seem right to me...after hearing these results, do you guys think the chiller is primarily restricting the flow, or is it the 1/2" tubing? If it's the chiller, I'd like to return it but since I have opened/used it, the Premium Aquatics return policy won't allow the return/refunds. I also don't want to waste any more time/money at Home Depot buying larger tubing if the chiller's internal coil size is to blame....help!
I guess the underlying elementary question is -- if I have a 1/2" bottleneck (chiller), does it even matter what size pipe is supplying water to the chiller?
It seems to me like 1/2" tubing can't cut a high quality 900gph pump's flow by almost 70%......but then again, I don't know much about hydraulics. I did calculate the area of a 1/2" circle versus a 5/8" circle, and the 5/8" is about 1.6x larger. So, taking the simplest approach, can I expect to get 1.6x the flow of 1/2" tubing by replacing it with 5/8"? If that's the case, that totals 440gph and that would be darn near perfect.
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RedEDGE,
I built a enclosure for my tanks somthing like your and was have a big overheating issue as well.
I have a 150aga tank (60x24x24) with 2 400w and 1 250w mh with a 6 inch fan blowing across the top. The worked great as long as I kept the top door open. otherwise the chiller would come on two or three times a daily (even on cold days).
The chiller worked great but the heat it generated in the room was not pleaseant.
So I installed a bathroom vent fan, hooked it up to my controller and now I keep the doors closed and the chiller only comes on the very hot days. THe 6in fan cools the water and the vent fan removes the heat.
Give the bathroom fan a try you wont be sorry.
Mark
I built a enclosure for my tanks somthing like your and was have a big overheating issue as well.
I have a 150aga tank (60x24x24) with 2 400w and 1 250w mh with a 6 inch fan blowing across the top. The worked great as long as I kept the top door open. otherwise the chiller would come on two or three times a daily (even on cold days).
The chiller worked great but the heat it generated in the room was not pleaseant.
So I installed a bathroom vent fan, hooked it up to my controller and now I keep the doors closed and the chiller only comes on the very hot days. THe 6in fan cools the water and the vent fan removes the heat.
Give the bathroom fan a try you wont be sorry.
Mark
RedEDGE2k1
Member
Yeah I've seen that done a lot myself, it seems to work well. However I live in a townhome so I don't have the option of cutting into any exterior walls...blah.
RedEDGE2k1
Member
I wonder if I cut two holes in the top of the cabinet and install two 6" KingAir fans, one blowing in and one blowing out, would keep my water temp below 80Ã"šÃ‚° in the summer? Is it best to have both blowing in, out, or one of each?
If it doesn't at least drop my water temp by 2 or 3 degrees in the summer, it's not worth having all that light shining out of the top of the cabinet, in my opinion.
If it doesn't at least drop my water temp by 2 or 3 degrees in the summer, it's not worth having all that light shining out of the top of the cabinet, in my opinion.
i cut into my hood top and put a wooden floor vent from lowes in there to vent the hood. I installed 2 fans in the back of the canopy blowing in and it has help quite a bit. granted, my setup is for a 20H so you may need a couple more fans and a larger vent. It does not shine light out through the vent at all really either.
Go to Lowes or Home Depot and just get a bathroom vent fan, I pay a littlet extra and purchase the one with most CFM and was the questest (I think it's rated at 140CFM). You will only need one fan to suck hot air out, your hood is open enough in the back to allow the vent fan to draw cool air in.
I like to keep my tanks below 80 and once the fax was installed I have had no problem keeping it at below 80 without the chiller. and once again I'm running 2 400w and 1 250w. Only during the hot summer days (above 95) does the chiller come on and I dont have A/C in the house.
I like to keep my tanks below 80 and once the fax was installed I have had no problem keeping it at below 80 without the chiller. and once again I'm running 2 400w and 1 250w. Only during the hot summer days (above 95) does the chiller come on and I dont have A/C in the house.
RumLad
New member
I have read that some folks have had problems with fans that draw air OUT of the hood. Something about the salt causing corrosion / deposit issues on the fan.
Dustin, are you still blowing air directly across the sump water? Shouldn't that be enough evaporative cooling for the system?
Dustin, are you still blowing air directly across the sump water? Shouldn't that be enough evaporative cooling for the system?
I tried blowing water directly across the top with nice 6in fan and one blowing on the sump and still had a bad heat issue.
You need to get the head out of the hood, once I installed the bathroom vent fan my heat issues have gone away. The fan has been on my tanks for awhile now without any problems.
If there does become a salt and corrosion problem the cost of replacing the fan is much cheaper the running the chiller and if that chiller is in your living room and runs for an hours or so you will not be happy with the heat it puts out.
You need to get the head out of the hood, once I installed the bathroom vent fan my heat issues have gone away. The fan has been on my tanks for awhile now without any problems.
If there does become a salt and corrosion problem the cost of replacing the fan is much cheaper the running the chiller and if that chiller is in your living room and runs for an hours or so you will not be happy with the heat it puts out.
RedEDGE2k1
Member
Apparently not...I'm gonna take a look at the bathroom fans he's talking about tomorrow. We'll see.
I'm returning the chiller to Premium Aquatics tomorrow. Please, nobody buy this chiller (Pacific Coast Imports 1/10hp CL-280) so they'll stop making them. What a waste of my time & money...
Take care-
Dustin