Cycle necessary?
- Thread starter tclndcrz
- Start date
wooden_reefer
New member
By using water from an established tank you get the bacteria seeds
You still need to add ammonia and then allow about four weeks to cycle
Nearly all but not all the bacteria are on the substrate not waterborne
Titans_Reef
New member
When I set up my 14g biocube, I got a 20lb bag of sand and used all LR from my 125g so I just replaced it with new LR from my LFS. I got about 4 cups of sand from my 125g and poured it in the 14g but I set it ontop of the sand and didnt mix it. The biocube never cycled but I still waited about 2 months before I did a WC and only topped off water that evaporated. The more bacteria you introduce into a new system the better it will be. I also used all the old water from my 125g from where I was doing a WC but it was water from where I syphoned my sand to clean it so it was dirty but since it was a new set up it didnt matter.
shesacharmer
New member
What you are cycling are the rocks and the sand...not the water. It takes several weeks for enough bacteria to grow on them to support your tank inhabitants. After you have your nitrate spike and do the water change at that point add some clean up crew alone in the tank for four weeks to do their work on your sand before you add fish.
E46Twist
New member
It is very possible to avoid the high nitrogen levels while the tank cycles (establishes its very own biological filter.) However it requires good populated media that has been in a good system. This is anything with porous surface area. If you have and existing friends system with some extra sump space throw 10 or so pounds of rock in the sump for a month or so. Make sure and keep this rock in buckets full of water during transport. Be sure to keep feeding the rock when added to your tank and it will begin to populate everything. I'd give that a couple of weeks and add your first small fish.
wooden_reefer
New member
Tricks can't replace cycling.
The bacteria population tends to be at equlibrium with the bioload. Robbing an established tank may harm existing livestock and is often ineffective for the new livestock due to too low a bacteria population on the new rock.
Sometimes by feeding a bit more and then less later during this attempt may work to a degree, but robust cycling of new rock does not happen in this piggyback fashion.
The greater the existing bioload in comparison to the need for new bioload, the greater the chance that this trick might work, but there is no reason to take chances.
Cycling is easy: just add seeds and ammonia of rather high level in a separate container. The new rock and the bacteria seeds have to be immersed in significant ammonia (high enough to harm livestock) for a major part of the cycle in order to achieve a robust cycle.
wooden_reefer
New member
Yes.
Say your existing DT has five 3-inch fish. You do your piggyback trick.
Can your trick support a new 3-inch fish? Chancy.
Could it support a new five inch fish? Unlikely
Could you support a tiny 2 inch fish? Likely.
How will the five existing fish do when one-fifth of the medium has been removed? A mini-cycle.
Such piggyback trick is reasonable in an emergency. It is unwise as a plan in advance.
myofibroblast
New member
Or you cycled the tank appropriately, and I'm glad you are proud to share your experience.
I don't see any reason in being dogmatic about cycling a tank. The efficiency of oxidation, archaeal and bacterial population dynamics, environmental factors, and ammonia production varies so much between tanks and even within the same tank over time that it really is unhelpful to promote one correct way to cycle or deal with nitrogen.
It will be more helpful that the caretaker of the aquarium understand the basic principles of the nitrogen cycle, the basic output measurements in the specific brand of test kits used, and be able to formulate his or her own action plan rather than adhering to some prescribed dogma. The nitrogen cycle doesn't cease to exist with "my tank has cycled".
To the original poster, as long as you understand the principles of nitrogen cycle, and you know what to test for (and what the results mean), good luck! Just remember, if you are unsure whether you have transferred adequate ammonia and nitrite oxidizing organisms to your new tank, you can always add some ammonia to test. After all, there is no fish in it.
wooden_reefer
New member
Or you cycled the tank appropriately, and I'm glad you are proud to share your experience.
I don't see any reason in being dogmatic about cycling a tank. The efficiency of oxidation, archaeal and bacterial population dynamics, environmental factors, and ammonia production varies so much between tanks and even within the same tank over time that it really is unhelpful to promote one correct way to cycle or deal with nitrogen.
It will be more helpful that the caretaker of the aquarium understand the basic principles of the nitrogen cycle, the basic output measurements in the specific brand of test kits used, and be able to formulate his or her own action plan rather than adhering to some prescribed dogma. The nitrogen cycle doesn't cease to exist with "my tank has cycled".
To the original poster, as long as you understand the principles of nitrogen cycle, and you know what to test for (and what the results mean), good luck! Just remember, .
Cycling is simple not dogmatic.
Will there be enough active bacteria to process the ammonia? Such is the simple question, not complicated.
The activity of bacteria is basically governed by the bioload and time toward such equilbrium.
Why would you think that bacteria will first increase in number when the bioload is constant?
Why would you believe that any increase in the number of bacteria, if any, will prefer to grow on the new medium?
Bacteria may increase if you feed gradually more food to existing livestock weeks in advance and less later. True
Bacteria could be encouraged to grow on new medium if it is placed in areas richer in O2. True
All these are true but are quite secondary and also should be immaterial. Cycling properly is very easy.
If one is planning ahead, there is zero reason to take any chances by piggybacking an established tank.
Such chances are often unfavorable and piggybacking is often far from ideal and can be deadly.
"if you are unsure whether you have transferred adequate ammonia and nitrite oxidizing organisms to your new tank, you can always add some ammonia to test. After all, there is no fish in it"
We are talking about is basically the same. Why argue about it?
wooden_reefer
New member
Just remember, if you are unsure whether you have transferred adequate ammonia and nitrite oxidizing organisms to your new tank, you can always add some ammonia to test. After all, there is no fish in it.
One should not be sure so one should make the new medium process a pulse of ammonia. This is basically cycling.
myofibroblast
New member
1 and 2. Agreed, nitrification is fairly simple and "many roads can lead to Rome". The path prescribed by internet chatter can be dogmatic, however. Simplicity of a biological process and dogmatism in practice are not mutually exclusive.
2. We were arguing??
wooden_reefer
New member
We are basically saying the same.
Just that i insist that one should not be sure.
In fact, the chances of piggybacking suceeding is small.
Why take chances at all?
One should plan to not take chances from the start. The new medium needs only be in the DT for a brief period to be seeded and should then be taken out to be cycled in a separate container. This saves time; cycle at once.
Just that i insist that one should not be sure.
In fact, the chances of piggybacking suceeding is small.
Why take chances at all?
One should plan to not take chances from the start. The new medium needs only be in the DT for a brief period to be seeded and should then be taken out to be cycled in a separate container. This saves time; cycle at once.
E46Twist
New member
Sorry I must have been in clear. No tank can avoid a cycle period. Even if it is just establishing bacteria on glass. I was simply saying add a small amount of rock to a good system and let bacteria seed it. This helps avoid the massive nitrogen spikes. I have set up two tanks that recorded no or very small amounts of ammonia . they still cycled by all means, I was just saying it is possible to avoid the normal time and procedure if done right. Its like transferring tanks but on much smaller scale. I would never advise anyone to go to a friends hose pull out a bunch of rock throw it in the tank and call it good.
