Cycling with Red Sea nitrite issue

[evey208]

Hey guys,

I am kind of new to RC but I've been lurking for a while. I am currently cycling 45g tank with a sump (approx 10g of water in there) and bh1000 hob skimmer in sump due to limited space.

After researching I settled on using the Red Sea mature pro kit to cycle the tank. I started with dry rock and dry sand.

For those familiar, on day 10 the kit says your readings should be 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and 10 nitrate and instructs you to add inverts. My levels were ammonia 0, nitrites .5, and about 15 nitrates on day 10, so I did a small water change (10%) and waited a few more days. Now I'm on day 13 and my readings are exactly the same. I tested pH which was about 8.2 and alk which was about 8.5dKh. My tank is getting some algae growth and I think I should be getting a cleaner crew in there.

I took a water sample to LFS thinking maybe my own readings were off but they ended up being exactly the same. They said my salinity was a little low so I topped it off with saltwater until it was corrected.

I would've though my nitrites would've gone down by now but they haven't. So, I'm hoping to get some advice on what I should do next..

1. Any thoughts on why my nitrites aren't going down? Is there something I am missing maybe?
2. Should I go ahead and add inverts even those my nitrites are still showing .5ppm? Will this harm them?
3. Should I just wait it out longer?

Thanks in advance for any advice!


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[mcgyvr]

I really do not believe that one can follow a day by day program like that and ever achieve the same readings/results from tank to tank..
Its just not possible..

IMO.. 10-13 days is not nearly enough to properly cycle a tank with dry rock/sand.
No matter what bacteria in a bottle I will ALWAYS cycle for no less than 4 weeks. But do realize that its entirely possible to be cycled before that..

But remember "NOTHING good happens fast in reefing"

As a test you can get pure ammonia (no surfactants/scents) and add some to achieve an ammonia level of 2ppm then if that and nitrites is zero in 24 hours or less the tank is ready..

Or just wait another 2 weeks and call it cycled..

Rushing a cycle is NEVER a good idea and the tank will still go through uglies and a process of maturing over the next 6 months or more.. take your time.. don't rush

 

[air2mag]

I started my 75 about 4 weeks ago using the same product. You have the same numbers I got. In fact my nitrate number is still around 15. I went ahead and added my snails and crabs according to the book. Everything was good except for the slightly higher nitrate. I also added a long nose hawk and cardinal at week three. Both are doing great. Since the nitrate is still high I am still adding the NO3-PO4-X at the 3ml per 25 liter dose as per the bottle. Once it drops I'll move down to the 2ml dose.

 

[mcgyvr]

I started my 75 about 4 weeks ago using the same product. You have the same numbers I got. In fact my nitrate number is still around 15. I went ahead and added my snails and crabs according to the book. Everything was good except for the slightly higher nitrate. I also added a long nose hawk and cardinal at week three. Both are doing great. Since the nitrate is still high I am still adding the NO3-PO4-X at the 3ml per 25 liter dose as per the bottle. Once it drops I'll move down to the 2ml dose.

Many believe that part of cycling means your nitrates will go to zero too.. Thats not the case at all..

Cycling is ONLY to ensure that any levels of toxic ammonia and toxic nitrites are quickly converted to the less toxic nitrates in a short period of time to avoid poisoning your livestock..

Battling nitrates is an issue for the life of the tank..
Nitrites/ammonia are only issues with a new tank (or after a massive death in a tank)

 

[JUNBUG361]

10 days & cycle is complete, thats pretty good & fast. I'd say wait a bit longer just like mcgyvr advise

 

[wrightdawg]

So today is Day 14 for me on the exact same program. I believe it was day 10 that I took my water measurements and my Ammonia was basically zero, my Nitrites were also reading zero and my Nitrates were sitting around 25ppm. I got my cleanup crew as directed but my brown algae has been getting worse.

Following all the correct instructions and dosing I did my reading again yesterday. Ammonia and Nitrites are rising and Nitrates are now closer to 40-50ppm. I'm not sure if I'm having a cycle within a cycle or what, but apparently I should be upping my dosage of NO3-PO4X. However I'm reluctant to change the dosage of what is recommended.

Today I was supposed to add 3 Herbivorous fish but with all my numbers rising I'm going to hold off. I guess just keep riding out the cycle and hopefully my numbers will get to where they are supposed to be eventually. I'd love to add some algae eating fish but I don't want to kill them off either.

My tank is a Red Sea Reefer 350.

 

[wrightdawg]

Adding to the above, today is another 5% water change so hopefully that will help a bit.

 

[mcgyvr]

d but my brown algae has been getting worse.

Ammonia and Nitrites are rising and Nitrates are now closer to 40-50ppm. I'm not sure if I'm having a cycle within a cycle or what, but apparently I should be upping my dosage of NO3-PO4X.

Its 100% totally normal for diatoms/algae in a new tank and it will be like that for weeks or more.. Its the "ugly stage" and nothing abnormal about it..
It will pass.. Don't think you need to take any drastic measures or add more critters.. Its again 100% normal..

Its usually a brown diatom outbreak then a green film/hair algae and even some red cyano bacteria.. These are stages basically all saltwater tanks go through.. For the most part it will all pass provided you just keep up with normal (oh lets say 20% water changes every week for a while and you can drop that to every 2 weeks in a few months)

When cycling water changes to keep nitrate levels from getting to high are the best solution at this stage..

If ammonia and nitrites are rising then don't add anything more to the tank yet..
Its still cycling.. Give it time.. (basically another 2 weeks or so)

Frankly as I sort of said above I think red seas cycle program is an absolute joke and waste of money giving people false hope and leading to more problems/confusion than it solves..

They also basically hook you into an fairly expensive nitrate/phosphate solution for life when all you need is a $2 gallon of white distilled vinegar to perform the exact same function at a fraction of the cost..

ok..thats enough..

 

[evey208]

I really do not believe that one can follow a day by day program like that and ever achieve the same readings/results from tank to tank..
Its just not possible..

I totally agree that its likely never going to be the same as what the book says. Its a shame they don't include instructions for if and when your results vary from what is expected. Last time I cycled a tank I used the old shrimp method, but I wanted to try something different this time. There are so many methods with double the amount of opinions of each method, it makes it difficult to choose one!

I am going to give it some more time and let the tank run its course. When my levels are looking better, I'll give it a go. Eventually when everything seems to have leveled out, I'll ditch the supplements they provide and stick with water changes, GFO, etc. I have no problem waiting, we put too much work into this tank to cut corners now!

 

[evey208]

I started my 75 about 4 weeks ago using the same product. You have the same numbers I got. In fact my nitrate number is still around 15. I went ahead and added my snails and crabs according to the book. Everything was good except for the slightly higher nitrate. I also added a long nose hawk and cardinal at week three. Both are doing great. Since the nitrate is still high I am still adding the NO3-PO4-X at the 3ml per 25 liter dose as per the bottle. Once it drops I'll move down to the 2ml dose.

Did your nitrites ever go down? Like mcgyvr said, nitrates will always be something you have to watch and do water changes accordingly.

 

[evey208]

So today is Day 14 for me on the exact same program. I believe it was day 10 that I took my water measurements and my Ammonia was basically zero, my Nitrites were also reading zero and my Nitrates were sitting around 25ppm. I got my cleanup crew as directed but my brown algae has been getting worse.

Following all the correct instructions and dosing I did my reading again yesterday. Ammonia and Nitrites are rising and Nitrates are now closer to 40-50ppm. I'm not sure if I'm having a cycle within a cycle or what, but apparently I should be upping my dosage of NO3-PO4X. However I'm reluctant to change the dosage of what is recommended.

Today I was supposed to add 3 Herbivorous fish but with all my numbers rising I'm going to hold off. I guess just keep riding out the cycle and hopefully my numbers will get to where they are supposed to be eventually. I'd love to add some algae eating fish but I don't want to kill them off either.

My tank is a Red Sea Reefer 350.

Yikes, that's why I am hesitant to add anything until I know for sure everything is cycled. Maybe you should do a larger water change than just the 5% if your levels are that high. Are you using a skimmer per the instructions?

 

[Reefiez]

THE BEST article on nitrite toxicity IMO. Bottom line, needs a pretty high ppm to affect most marine fish and inverts.

For your question on your inverts, I had a skunk cleaner shrimp living in a QT observation tank with nitrite readings at 5+ppm (max of api test kit) for 2 weeks, and it is still alive today (3 month later).

About waiting it out, remember you need to constantly add sources of ammonia to keep the cycle going, or else the bacteria will starve and die off! I think the Red Sea mature kit is just enough for your tank size, do you have enough bacto start to last you the few extra days?

 

[wrightdawg]

THE BEST article on nitrite toxicity IMO. Bottom line, needs a pretty high ppm to affect most marine fish and inverts.

For your question on your inverts, I had a skunk cleaner shrimp living in a QT observation tank with nitrite readings at 5+ppm (max of api test kit) for 2 weeks, and it is still alive today (3 month later).

About waiting it out, remember you need to constantly add sources of ammonia to keep the cycle going, or else the bacteria will starve and die off! I think the Red Sea mature kit is just enough for your tank size, do you have enough bacto start to last you the few extra days?

Yeah I ordered two boxes because I read that 1 wasn't enough for a 75 gallon. I did a water change last night and actually changed 10 gallons instead of 5 and will do that again on day 21. One other thing I should consider is that perhaps one or two snails died so that could be upping the ammonia/nitrites correct? I'm trying to spot any dead ones and can't but there are a couple I cannot find either Thanks for posting that article I will read it for sure. I'm finding this a fun but somewhat complicated and expensive hobby for sure, and I haven't even invested in fish yet.

 

[wrightdawg]

Yikes, that's why I am hesitant to add anything until I know for sure everything is cycled. Maybe you should do a larger water change than just the 5% if your levels are that high. Are you using a skimmer per the instructions?

Yes I got the Reef Octo 150 Classic Internal. It's worked pretty well it seems since it stinks pretty badly already and I've had to remove some nasty stuff from the cup. I've been running it wide open for the most part per the instructions they give but it's still collecting just fine.

 

[evey208]

THE BEST article on nitrite toxicity IMO. Bottom line, needs a pretty high ppm to affect most marine fish and inverts.

For your question on your inverts, I had a skunk cleaner shrimp living in a QT observation tank with nitrite readings at 5+ppm (max of api test kit) for 2 weeks, and it is still alive today (3 month later).

About waiting it out, remember you need to constantly add sources of ammonia to keep the cycle going, or else the bacteria will starve and die off! I think the Red Sea mature kit is just enough for your tank size, do you have enough bacto start to last you the few extra days?

Thanks for that article. I went out of town on day 9 for a few days. Day 10 was the day to add more bacto and other supplements. When I returned the levels were exactly the same so I just continued the program where I left off. I measured the nitrites again today and they are next to nothing. So either time took its course or adding the bacto a few days ago trigger the rest of the cycle. Either way I am happy things are seemingly on track for now.