Debating a return to the salty side of things

[PhishMonger84]

Hello- I'm Tim.

I'm running a few larger freshwater tanks ATM, 3 180's & 1 125 plus several smaller formats like 90's 75's and 40b.

In college i kept a simple salt tank with two damsels- it was only a 10 gallon. It was fun but not my kind of fish keeping. i also ran a 90-gal w/30-gallon sump for a number of years (4.5) but it didn't allow me the types of fish i enjoy and became too much work. I also kept getting sidetracked and adding things I don't enjoy like corals and inverts.

What i like about salt is the predators. triggers #1, puffers #2, miniatus groupers, some larger wrasse like the tusk fish and a few of the larger angel's favorite is the Asfur & emperor.

I'm debating converting my 125 to FO or FOWLR ( i have 100lbs of rock that was previously live) the tank is a standard 72*18 125, it is not drilled but i do have the equip to sump it, if need be.

Whats the simplest setup i can do here? can i use 2-3 AC110's or larger HOBs? do i need a skimmer, i have two but i could never figure out how to get them working properly.

as this is speculative at the moment, i'm just looking for suggestions for a low tech tank.

if i DO decide to convert i would likely have 2-3 triggers, either a DF puffer or porcupine and likely start off with like 6-10 blue/green chromis as my canaries.

any thoughts here or existing threads you can link me?

thanks!

stay fishy

 

[Reefing102]

Welcome to RC!

If not doing a sump I’d likely either do a canister filter (like the FX-6) or maybe two (FX-2’s or FX-4’s). My experience with larger predator fish is they are very messy. I would strongly encourage a a skimmer but that’s my own personal preference as it helps remove the extra organics.

As for stocking, just be aware your Chromis will likely become trigger food. Also depending on the triggers, they may bully each other.

Predators are not my specialty, more of a reef guy, but going fish only does allow in my opinion to go a bit more low tech

@kharmaguru @Timfish @griss @mtnbike101 any thoughts?

 

[PhishMonger84]

Welcome to RC!

If not doing a sump I’d likely either do a canister filter (like the FX-6) or maybe two (FX-2’s or FX-4’s). My experience with larger predator fish is they are very messy. I would strongly encourage a a skimmer but that’s my own personal preference as it helps remove the extra organics.

As for stocking, just be aware your Chromis will likely become trigger food. Also depending on the triggers, they may bully each other.

Predators are not my specialty, more of a reef guy, but going fish only does allow in my opinion to go a bit more low tech

@kharmaguru @Timfish @griss @mtnbike101 any thoughts?

Thank you!

I can do sumps; I have the kits at home and at least a 40-breeder available. the tank in question i was planning to switch to a sump, just haven't gotten to it.

I have 4 fx6's 2 in use and 3 spare cascade 1500's as well. As mentioned, i do have 2 skimmers and both are rated for 180 gallons tanks- i just never understood how to get them running efficiently, I'd revisit but i may need help. i also have a few good-sized return pumps and jaebo cross flow wavemakers and others. The equipment is not an issue. i even have a RO unit- though I've never installed it and would prefer not using RO (if possible)

I totally understand about the chromis, I figured I'd throw them in for several months as i look to acquire stock maybe a larger damsel like a srgt major after the tank is cycled.

the trigs are the most important aspect to me. I really enjoy the species within Rhinecanthus , pink tails, blue throats and a lot less likely the golden heart and the clown. but my thoughts were 3 added at the same time and smaller size.

I do enjoy angels and 1 larger one would be nice but not necessary.

a puffer would be awesome, but I've had bad luck with freshwater puffers, so i am hesitant there.

The harlequin tusk or a grouper would just be to add interest in the space allows-

Most of my freshwater fish are larger too so, i understand the maintenance side. Although, i wont be doing fin level weekly WC in a salt tank.

 

[kharmaguru]

If you decide to use an FX6. do it like this guy - add some sort of easy to clean prefilter on the intake, and put a contained algae scrubber on the output. I think @OldReefGuy runs an FX6 just filled with liverock rubble. I seriously want to try it because after doing my 6 month sump clean out the other day, sumps are kind of losing their appeal for me.

 

[OldReefGuy]

running 3 FX6's on a 120....all with LR rubble.....thanks for the reminder....its been almost a year, time to clean the only thing that needs cleaning...impeller.

 

[PhishMonger84]

interesting, my LFS calls cans nitrate factories.

i clean my freshwater sump 2x per year, using a utility pump to fully drain it, pull the media, collect all the crayfish and then shop vac up the sludge.

With an FX6 a prefilter is prerequisite, especially with sand.

@OldReefGuy do you run sand in your aquarium? I've had to take apart the motors several times due to sand getting in and past my pre filter.

When you say its full of rubble do you use the red rings and foam pads at all?

 

[kharmaguru]

interesting, my LFS calls cans nitrate factories.

That has been stated for 40yrs and yet people have successfully kept balanced reef tanks using them. They also consume oxygen which requires mitigation with ample surface movement. Since your goal is predator FOWLR, you are going to have high nitrates regardless of filtration type in my estimation and again some form of mitigation will be required to keep balance. Perhaps that is easier done with a sump..

 

[PhishMonger84]

That has been stated for 40yrs and yet people have successfully kept balanced reef tanks using them. They also consume oxygen which requires mitigation with ample surface movement. Since your goal is predator FOWLR, you are going to have high nitrates regardless of filtration type in my estimation and again some form of mitigation will be required to keep balance. Perhaps that is easier done with a sump..

it also gets proliferated on freshwater forums as well.

I still run them and find them both convenient and effective. I cannot say the same for HOBs.

I guess ill rig up the sump and let my big male umbee stay in the tank until he needs a 180. then revisit the salty thing.

any thoughts on my preliminary stock?

huma huma
pinktail
Asfur
porc puff

and chromis to cycle and if they live, great

 

[Reefing102]

I think for right now as far as stock goes, you’d probably be good for a while with 5 or 6 large fish (just not likely full adult sizes of some of the ones you mentioned). That said, if you can find the Gold Heart they are a beautiful fish. My LFS had one in about 1.5 years ago but it was pretty penny I wasn’t willing to spend

As for the nitrate factory thing, I’ve heard that on and off for years as well but it seems cans have quite the following by comparison to years past.

As for RO, again being a reef guy, I run RODI. I know certain puffers (and other fish) can be sensitive to copper so if your water has copper in it (from leaching pipes or otherwise) it may have an ill effect on the tank.

 

[PhishMonger84]

Yeah, I’m eastern Massachusetts we have liquid rock and old infrastructure. I better set that RODI filter up.

Golden heart is one of my bucket list fish, they’re gorgeous but I haven’t seen them in a price range I’m comfortable with well, ever

Clown triggers are as well same with a Redtail catfish, it’s most likely not going to happen.

I did have an email exchange with someone from biota a few years ago that states even in their 4000g natural sea water display their clown pair was only about 16” after 4 yrs

 

[PhishMonger84]

list for me to keep track of and widdle down: Bold are the preferred sp

Family	Genus	species
Triggers	Rhinecanthus	assasi
	Rhinecanthus	aculeatus
	Rhinecanthus	rectangulus
	Melichthys	vidua
	Melichthys	indicus
Eel	Gymnomuraena	zebra
Tang	Zebrasoma	flavescens
	Zebrasoma	xanthurum
	Zebrasoma	desjardini
Oddballs	Serranus	tigrinus
	Neoniphon	sammara
	Myripristis	sp
Angels	Pomacanthus	annularis
	Pomacanthus	asfur
Puffer	Arothron	nigropunctatus
	Diodon	holocanthus
Wrasse	Gomphosus	varius
	Choerodon	fasciatus
	Thalassoma	hardwicke

 

[OldReefGuy]

interesting, my LFS calls cans nitrate factories.

i clean my freshwater sump 2x per year, using a utility pump to fully drain it, pull the media, collect all the crayfish and then shop vac up the sludge.

With an FX6 a prefilter is prerequisite, especially with sand.

@OldReefGuy do you run sand in your aquarium? I've had to take apart the motors several times due to sand getting in and past my pre filter.

When you say its full of rubble do you use the red rings and foam pads at all?

Hi Phish, I dont have any sponges (I dont know what red rings are). I have a 2"/3" sand bed. Intakes are approx: 4" above sand bed. In the first month of my set-up, the FX6's where are sponges, until the sand settled down within the water column, and then switched over to all rubble. There is/willl be some sand in the filters now, but not anything for me to be concerned about. You could add a sponge at the intake, (the screnns can be taken apart). Regarding them being Nitrate factories, that just means that they are doing exactly what they are designed to do.....its just poort husbandry when things get out of control. For what its worth, my cans contain more interesting life then my tank LOL.....all kinds of worms an translucent sponges and things...(due to lack of light)....

 

[PhishMonger84]

I do the same thing with my FX6, i put course foam into the bottom of the intake and usually another wrap around the outside too.

By red rings i mean the trays that come with an fx6, i believe there are 3- is your rubble loose in the cannister of does it sit in the trays are included with the filter.

 

[mtnbike101]

Late to the party...was at a British Car Show for the last few days.

I think folks have chimed in with good advice. I'd say if you have the option for a sump and a skimmer, go that route. Triggers are going to be messy and especially when you have a number of other fish in there (think high in-high out). A sump with filter socks or roller will make cleanup easier than one or more canister filters, IMO.

 

[OldReefGuy]

I do the same thing with my FX6, i put course foam into the bottom of the intake and usually another wrap around the outside too.

By red rings i mean the trays that come with an fx6, i believe there are 3- is your rubble loose in the cannister of does it sit in the trays are included with the filter.

I do use the baskets (Red Rings), to keep thing tidy....Looks like you want FOWLR, IMO, I would go with a wet/dry system (ahhh!!!!!! you cant use that, its only for Freshwater!!!!!!), a skimmer and good husbandry on the filter..... Anyway, my 2 cents.

 

[PhishMonger84]

I do use the baskets (Red Rings), to keep thing tidy....Looks like you want FOWLR, IMO, I would go with a wet/dry system (ahhh!!!!!! you cant use that, its only for Freshwater!!!!!!), a skimmer and good husbandry on the filter..... Anyway, my 2 cents.

i see the confusion over "red rings" i waas cleaning out two this weekend and realized the trays themselves are grey but the tops/center/caps whatever they are, are red