Did anyone see this claim?

J

jmkarcz

New member
I'm just getting around to do the purchase of that Magnesium test kit and additive... Spike mentioned that he thought my "available calcium might be affected negatively by low Mag..." )correct me if I am wrong on that Spike.

But on my search tonight, I found this statement, I never saw before...

Quoted--------------

Seachem Reef Advantage Magnesiumâ"žÂ¢ is a concentrated (80,000 ppm) optimized blend of magnesium, chloride, and sulfate salts designed to restore depleted levels of magnesium with minimal impact to the ionic ratios found in natural sea water. Reef Advantage Magnesiumâ"žÂ¢ contains no ammonia! This is a common contaminant in every liquid magnesium supplement on the market. Severely depleted levels of magnesium (below 800 mg/L) can cause depressed pH levels and an inability to maintain proper calcium levels. Magnesium depletion is commonly associated with the use of kalkwasser. 600 g treats 10,000 L (2,500 gallons).

The part that caught my eye was the "Magnesium depletion is commonly associated with the use of kalkwasser." part.


Has anyone else been watching this? Or is this one for the Mythbusters?

J
 
Yea, the thing is, all the mg thats in lime water falls out at the bottom of the bucket. So if you add in a slurry, this would not be a prob. I think that mg gets used somewhere around 1-5 ppm for every 100ppm of calcium. So for every 100ppm of lime you add, your missing the mg. (1-5ppm) I guess without the mg the corals just use calcium instead. So I'm not sure how important mg is to the corals. Mg can also prevent calcuim deposits on your heaters and pumps, witch can make it hard to keep calcuim levels high. Interestingly dom, and phosphates can play the same role as mg. The corals do the same thing (deposit calcium like on the heaters, and pumps) when they grow. So I'm not sure that mg is a "good thing" for coral growth. However calcareous algae use it, and seem to need it, witch prevents the growth of other types of algae, reducing nutrients, and benifiting the reef as a whole. I hope this helps.

Ant
 
The way I understand it magnesium is also part of the corals skeleton not a big part but it is in there. I have been watching my magnesium for a long time now and I use the crystals to add more. I think I went through like two four kilogram pails so far. There is a way to get it in bulk one of the brands of ice melting stuff for you sidewalks is what they use and its allot cheaper if enough people would be interested maybe we could order some. Its that big chemistry thing add this takes away that and too much of this and it is all out of wack :lol: . Anyways for me calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium in that order are watched in my tank.
 
I was under the understanding that mag was only a small cog in the machine, but it seems it's larger than I thought. I'm not quick on my water changes, and I dose calcium, and alkalinity. But I have been at a loss for some time about why my coraline pink algae, and my hard corals have been slow to do anything... the frags I got this last year, are doing well, but not well enough to continue at the pace I have been. About 3 months ago, I pushed kalk very heavily into my system, only a few water changes since then, but 5-8% on 140, is only 7 gallons or so. and not enought to make a dent if the mag is depleted.

J
 
Mag may be a small part of the coral skeleton, but it or any nutrient needed at micro levels can be a limiting factor in the growth of anything -coreal, algae, plants, humans. As I understand the chemistry, the Mg is not depleted by the kalkwasser additions, but it is utilized by the corals because they also have the calcium available for growth. Since the Mg is available at lower levels it gets tied up in the coral skeletons faster.
I was also under the impression that adding any of the available Mg supplements added more than enough Mg for coral growth.
I was unaware of any ammonia spike caused by these additives though. What worries me is if your tank is on the edge of a problem, the added ammonia no matter how small an amount will push your tank over the edge.
 
Mg depleation also causes an ionic imbalance in the water making calcium and alk levels difficult to maintain. You basically get a seasaw effect ~ when one rises the other falls. At least this is my understanding after reading what Randy has to say about it in the chemistry forum. I never had an ammonia problem adding epson salts.

Maybe you should post these claims in the chemistry forum and see what Randy has to say about it.
 
Spike,
Looking at the chemical formula for epsom salts, I see nothing that could produce an ammonia spike when adding it to salt water. The ammonia mentioned has to be from some other component of the trace element mixes that were being talked about or some random reaction of the life in the tank to begin excreting ammonia when the mix is added. Sounds funny but I have seen stranger things happen in water chemistry before. If the correct amount of epsom slats can be calculated accurately (and easily) I would stay away from the mixes that cause a spike for the time being. that being said, I have never seen an ammonia spike when I dose Seachem Magnesiumeither by itself or in conjunction with other trace elements.
 
I had to be low on mg before going to Randy's homemade 2-part. Since switching to that, my corals grow as if they are on steroids. I have never had such growth. I attribute it all to the mg in the 2 part of the recipe. BTW my mag now tests at 1350.

Before the 2 part I was having the sea saw effect as well...now everything is stable.
 
I've said for a while, I think I've nail about 90% of what I need to do to keep things alive... I used to kill anenomes and corals in days. I gave up for years... literally, 25 anenomes in my life, only made it 1-2 weeks. now, I'm pushing 1 year and 2 months, going on 3... with the same one... I'm doing something right now... but I'm still missing some key elemental part of the equasion, otherwise my system would be doing more than surviving, it would be thriving. I'm seriously whining now... all those people who said "serious reef keepers have...." I have the all those toys, the halides, the ro, the what ever, and I'm still missing something, the last 10%, thats why I'm looking at Mg now.

I will post the results of the test when I get the kit... we'll know immediatly then. It's sounding more and more like that's me problem. I bet this cracks it wide open.


J
 
I read somewhere here that just using Epson salts alone isn't quite the way to go. I am not a chemist or even close so I just go by what the experts here say and you need to mix Epson salts with something called magnesium chloride hexahydrate this is a ice melter sold by dead sea works (kinda weird to dump a product with a name like that in your tank). Maybe we can find some of this stuff in the stores soon its called MAG FLAKES there is another type of bag but it does say it comes from dead sea works. I looked for this last year but never found any but it was late in the season when I found this info. The article I got has a calcium supplement and an alkalinity one too. I am going to see where I can order some of this stuff if anyone would like to try we could share the shipping. I have the article printed out. It came from Reef Alchemy by Randy Homes-Farley so its still floating around in here someplace.
 
I should have mentioned that Epson salts should not be used if you need to add Mg frequently. The problem being a potential build up of sulfates. Since I only add it every few months or so I don't have a problem with it. I also add magensium chloride from Kent Essential Elements @ 2.0000 mg/oz when dosing the salts.

So far Espon salts along with the Kent Essential Elements have worked fine for my small system but I could see how you would want to avoid using it in higher quantities in larger systems.
 
Last edited:
Mako,
I have seen that article and am interested in it, but as long as things are running fine for me I am reluctant to try it.
By the by there is nothing in the hexahydrate itself that should be causing an ammonia spike either (like the reports on some Mg supplements).
It looks really good ,but............
 
Yeah, I would be hesitant too but we do add a little sodium chloride to the tanks - on occasion. The general rule in biology is to NEVER use the word "always". Always never seems to happen.
Jason,
Remember the conversations we've had a couple of times. I am not saying don't try the Magnesiu. I am saying don't change too much too fast. Make sure your phosphate sponge has done what you want it to do before you make any further radical changes in your tank husbandry.

Who was it that said "Nothing good happens quickly in a reef tank"? Sprung? Delbeek? Gooch?
 
I had bought some of the Seachem Reef advantage Magnesium last year. I then read about it on Randy's chemistry forum. Seachem is so afraid to use mag chloride that the mixture ends up being a screwy mix of (if I remember right) mag sulphate, calcium chloride and sodium chloride. It is NOT ionically balanced as they claim. I don't remember the exact details. Based on what I read there though I used the Seachem magnesium on the driveway last winter.

Allen
 
10-4 good buddy.

Update... I recv'd the test kit yesterday.... the directions state that the kit has been changed from the typlical and former measurements of 3 ml, down to 2 ml... and that the calcium MUST be between 300- and 500 for the kit to measure accurately. So, I measured... beleiving my Ca to be right on...

All 3 tests gace me the same results, the Mg was exactly where it should be... I was actually at 1400 ppm. So I theroize my ca to be a tad off, as If everything to be doing what it's doing and to sound so familliar, I dosed Ca, and will test all again today... If it's truely nasty stuff Al, Ill donate it to a good cause, I was lured in being that it was 1/2 the price and 2wice the gallonage coverage as the Tech M. I bought both, as Randy preferrs the Tech M.

I know I'm missing something small. I beleive it to be Mg... Unless anyone else has any other well kept secrets... you could always pm me, and I will keep it a secret to...

J
 
Hey guys!

I ordered the MAG and DOW flakes I use from Buckeye Field Supply (they're an RC sponsor now I guess http://www.buckeyefieldsupply.com/ ).

Just use the 2 part with MAG flakes or if you want just a cheap straight source of Mg, just use a few drops a week the magnesium portion.

http://www.reefvideos.com has a video of how to make the 2 part if you're not familiar with it along with the URL for the write up Randy make for the new one.
 
Well, nearest I can tell, there's nothing wrong with my tank, or my water... Mg, measuses right on, If anyone needs some mg supp though, I've invested 30$ or so in a couple different supplements I'll prolly not use...

Jason
 
Jason I have to agree with some of the earlier comments. Let the Phosphate sponges do their work and keep everything else going with regular water changes. Your system will come around.

Dan
 
UPDATE:

I continue to run the Phos sponge...I recently switched from changing it out every 4-5 days to 7-10 days... and I'm about to change to a new media that claims to NOT leech back into the water. I am NOT rejuvinating any of the media. 1 time use only...

Algae seems to almost stopped growing... the growth is almost - ALMOST non-existant...

The patches that remain have grown slightly... but the areas (vast) that I have bulled the tuffs, are not re-growing, and are not expanging.

I have not been as quick to pull these, since if I let them grow, a large tuff is (ironically) easier to pull than a small one. I have noticed character changes in the consistancy and feel of the tuffs, and the key word is weaker. The other reason is that pulling the algae is still EXPORTING the nutrients...

I also thinned some questionable cheato last month... could have been dead.... and that may have been degrading...

I do need to thin it again... is anyone looking..? pm me. Don't wait, I may do it before I leave on vacation...

Jason
 
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