super-cichlid
New member
oversized Pink Floyd poster. All those ladies have the cover of one of the Pink Floyd albums painted on thir backs. Gotta love body art.. 
difficulty maintaining SPS in 20H
- Thread starter super-cichlid
- Start date
jdallred
New member
Observations;
Lighting
1) IME, your 175 is too high. At 16†above the tank, it looks like it is about 20†above the top of your rock. I would lower it a min of 4â€Â, even lower if you can do it without any heat issues.
2) IMO, I would also get rid of the actinic, but not because they are actinic but because they are PCs and are not very efficient when it comes to the life of the bulbs. If able, I would replace the PCs with T5s. Finding a used 24†retro should be fairly easy and shouldn’t be to expensive ($60 used -$140 new).
3) You might consider completely re-doing your lighting. In the current config you are losing useful lighting (and therefore wasting electricity) from the 175 and the PCs. The 175 is a little too high, it only has half a reflector, and the reflector doesn’t appear to be bent correctly. Having the PC fixture at an angle you are losing the efficiency of the reflectors within the fixture. If you decide to keep the PCs, I would remove them from the fixture, purchase a new reflector ($60) for the 175, mount the PCs under the new reflector on either side of the 175, and lower it to about 12†above the tank.
Fish/Corals
1) If you are serious about keeping sps then you might consider getting rid of the CB. One of the food sources for CBs in the wild are hard corals, so the chances of it picking on sps are great and IMO it’s not a matter of if but when. We had a CB for three years before she started picking. I had a buddy that had a Flame for two and half years before it became a problem.
2) With three fish you are pushing the bio-load. Make sure you keep up on your clean up crew and watch your feedings. If you decided not to keep the CB then your bio-load would be fine with two fish.
3) I would suggest running carbon. When running a mixed reef you will often have chemical warfare between corals. Running carbon will help to get rid of these chemicals and many other types of pollutants.
Questions;
Flow/Water Movement
Do you have any current pics of your pump/flow setup?
To answer your question, what is too much flow? If done correctly it is difficult to have too much flow in a tank. You are really looking at two different kinds of flow, Laminar or direct, powerful, constant flow (current) and an indirect, turbulent, diffused flow (wave). The indirect, turbulent, diffused flow is what you are after. This will give you the turnover and water movement you need to keep sps without having to worry about corals being stripped of their tissue. With this water movement you should try to create a wave like movement or a random flow. This kind of flow will also help with dead spots in the tank. If you are unable to use a wave type device you can sometimes create similar random flows by bouncing the flow off of the glass.
Maint/Supplies
1) What kind of salt are you using?
2) You stated you add trace elements. Do you test for the elements you are adding? Many times people will add elements without testing for them and unknowingly overdose a particular element.
3) Your kH seems fine. Were you able to test for pH, Ca & Mg?
4) How fast does the macro in your fuge grow? How often do you prune it?
5) How long does it take to fill your skimmer cup?
Lighting
1) IME, your 175 is too high. At 16†above the tank, it looks like it is about 20†above the top of your rock. I would lower it a min of 4â€Â, even lower if you can do it without any heat issues.
2) IMO, I would also get rid of the actinic, but not because they are actinic but because they are PCs and are not very efficient when it comes to the life of the bulbs. If able, I would replace the PCs with T5s. Finding a used 24†retro should be fairly easy and shouldn’t be to expensive ($60 used -$140 new).
3) You might consider completely re-doing your lighting. In the current config you are losing useful lighting (and therefore wasting electricity) from the 175 and the PCs. The 175 is a little too high, it only has half a reflector, and the reflector doesn’t appear to be bent correctly. Having the PC fixture at an angle you are losing the efficiency of the reflectors within the fixture. If you decide to keep the PCs, I would remove them from the fixture, purchase a new reflector ($60) for the 175, mount the PCs under the new reflector on either side of the 175, and lower it to about 12†above the tank.
Fish/Corals
1) If you are serious about keeping sps then you might consider getting rid of the CB. One of the food sources for CBs in the wild are hard corals, so the chances of it picking on sps are great and IMO it’s not a matter of if but when. We had a CB for three years before she started picking. I had a buddy that had a Flame for two and half years before it became a problem.
2) With three fish you are pushing the bio-load. Make sure you keep up on your clean up crew and watch your feedings. If you decided not to keep the CB then your bio-load would be fine with two fish.
3) I would suggest running carbon. When running a mixed reef you will often have chemical warfare between corals. Running carbon will help to get rid of these chemicals and many other types of pollutants.
Questions;
Flow/Water Movement
Do you have any current pics of your pump/flow setup?
To answer your question, what is too much flow? If done correctly it is difficult to have too much flow in a tank. You are really looking at two different kinds of flow, Laminar or direct, powerful, constant flow (current) and an indirect, turbulent, diffused flow (wave). The indirect, turbulent, diffused flow is what you are after. This will give you the turnover and water movement you need to keep sps without having to worry about corals being stripped of their tissue. With this water movement you should try to create a wave like movement or a random flow. This kind of flow will also help with dead spots in the tank. If you are unable to use a wave type device you can sometimes create similar random flows by bouncing the flow off of the glass.
Maint/Supplies
1) What kind of salt are you using?
2) You stated you add trace elements. Do you test for the elements you are adding? Many times people will add elements without testing for them and unknowingly overdose a particular element.
3) Your kH seems fine. Were you able to test for pH, Ca & Mg?
4) How fast does the macro in your fuge grow? How often do you prune it?
5) How long does it take to fill your skimmer cup?
Are you using RO/DI for top off and water changes?
Do you have any coraline growth? i have heard that a good measure of a tanks ability to maintain SPS is healthy calcarous growth. I didnt see any in the pics but it wasnt a closeup. Your back wall should be covered with it. Once you get coraline cranking then think about SPS. How old is the tank btw?
I have HUGE turnover in my tank for flow. given the earlier caveats regarding directed/laminar flows 50x tank volunme isnt unreasonable. My main circ pump is doing 25x and a CL manifold adds 50x.
Do you have any coraline growth? i have heard that a good measure of a tanks ability to maintain SPS is healthy calcarous growth. I didnt see any in the pics but it wasnt a closeup. Your back wall should be covered with it. Once you get coraline cranking then think about SPS. How old is the tank btw?
I have HUGE turnover in my tank for flow. given the earlier caveats regarding directed/laminar flows 50x tank volunme isnt unreasonable. My main circ pump is doing 25x and a CL manifold adds 50x.
Last edited:
super-cichlid
New member
Did a phosphate test (borrowed a test kit from someone) and according to the test, my phosphates are ~.15 mg/L. Good?? Bad??
jdallred
After hearing from everyone else so far, I am seriously considering revamping my lighting. At the least, moving my MH down. At the most (and I suppose the better route to go and therefore my likely course of action) completely redoing the hood and either using t5's or maybe VHO's.
With the running of the carbon, I was thinking of running a carbon filter off of the return into the sump.
And with the CB, once the tank is ready for the SPS corals, It'll have to go.
Such a cool fish. Maybe I'll just have to set up a FOWLR tank.The type of salt that I use is SeaChem Reef Salt.
My pH is 8.0 to 8.1. My Ca and Mg I don't know yet. I need the test kits for those.
I trim the macro about every 8-10 days, and only enough to keep the algea below the water line.
I clean out the skimmer cup about once a week. Usually dark enough I'd equate it to coffee.
Bye the way, I was born and raised in Ft. Collins. I came out to IA for school. I wish I still lived there, I'd drive down and talk to yu face to face. My best friend growing up had a couple SW tanks in his house. His dad had a 150 - 200 gal FOWLR and his stepmom had a 75 reef. They were a blast to watch. Plus they had their aquascaping business and koi breeding ponds. Their house was AWESOME. All that was so much better than my little 29 gal FW tank I had.
waynemk
Yes, I use RO/DI water for top-off and mixing W/C saltwater. I usually let the W/C water sit for a few days witht e mixing pump in it before I use it to change the water.
I have some coralline growing, but mostly on the rocks that have been in the tank from the beginning. The tank system has been running for going on 10 months. I know, not too terribly old of a system, but I haven't had any major problem with it besides not being able to sustain SPS corals.
What makes coralline grow really well?
Here are some updates pics. I'll get a couple FTS shots tomorrow when the lights and coral are all out.
super-cichlid
New member
And some more:
super-cichlid
New member
And a few more:
super-cichlid
New member
Does the color temp matter for different types of corals?
Very nice setup.
Your phosphate is defiantly high, less than 0.03 is recommended so that definitely needs to be addressed.
I am willing to bet your alkalinity is going to be low and is keeping you pH on the low side. What time of day do you test pH? try testing one day when the lights go on and again when they go off. Knowing how big your swing is can help identify some issues. If you address alkalinity or calcium the other will be addressed at the same time to a greater or lesser degree. In the chemistry forum, Randy has a sticky thread called Reef Chemistry articles. If you only read one, read “Reef Aquarium Water Parameters" Most of his articles get pretty heavy pretty quick but that on is a brief overview of all parameters you should check in order of importance.
He thinks calcium and alkalinity are more important that temp and salinity.
I may have missed you discussing what you do about Alk/Ca besides water changes. If you are only relying on water changes; that isn’t enough! Quick and easy is get some B-Ionic or two part additive of your choice and start dosing. Be sure to get a good alk and Ca test kit. Salifert makes a good one and other companies are notoriously inaccurate. As you get closer to best values you may need to add one more than other. He has an article on what the best way to manage called “How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme.â€Â
Once you get PO4, Ca and Alk addressed you coralline should visibly spread to the back, front, nozzles within the week.
Just my $0.02 regarding light temps. 10k vs. 14k vs. 20k is not going to make a survival difference. All of the above will have comparable PAR output. Yes it can affect growth rates, but you cant keep any sps alive so that’s not the issue. Get the bigger water parameters right and it should fall into place. Moving the bulbs closer to the surface could potentially double the amount of energy that gets to the organisms in the tank. DOUBLE (based on inverse square law). Changing color temp will be like 5 or 10 % (no evidence for that fact but it’s a reasonable assumption).
Let us know what Ca and Alk tests say.
Your phosphate is defiantly high, less than 0.03 is recommended so that definitely needs to be addressed.
I am willing to bet your alkalinity is going to be low and is keeping you pH on the low side. What time of day do you test pH? try testing one day when the lights go on and again when they go off. Knowing how big your swing is can help identify some issues. If you address alkalinity or calcium the other will be addressed at the same time to a greater or lesser degree. In the chemistry forum, Randy has a sticky thread called Reef Chemistry articles. If you only read one, read “Reef Aquarium Water Parameters" Most of his articles get pretty heavy pretty quick but that on is a brief overview of all parameters you should check in order of importance.
He thinks calcium and alkalinity are more important that temp and salinity.
I may have missed you discussing what you do about Alk/Ca besides water changes. If you are only relying on water changes; that isn’t enough! Quick and easy is get some B-Ionic or two part additive of your choice and start dosing. Be sure to get a good alk and Ca test kit. Salifert makes a good one and other companies are notoriously inaccurate. As you get closer to best values you may need to add one more than other. He has an article on what the best way to manage called “How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme.â€Â
Once you get PO4, Ca and Alk addressed you coralline should visibly spread to the back, front, nozzles within the week.
Just my $0.02 regarding light temps. 10k vs. 14k vs. 20k is not going to make a survival difference. All of the above will have comparable PAR output. Yes it can affect growth rates, but you cant keep any sps alive so that’s not the issue. Get the bigger water parameters right and it should fall into place. Moving the bulbs closer to the surface could potentially double the amount of energy that gets to the organisms in the tank. DOUBLE (based on inverse square law). Changing color temp will be like 5 or 10 % (no evidence for that fact but it’s a reasonable assumption).
Let us know what Ca and Alk tests say.
super-cichlid
New member
FTS shot and some close ups:
super-cichlid
New member
super-cichlid
New member
Still haven't gotten picked up a Ca test. It'll be soon, promise.
Andy
Andy
Lagger
New member
More than likely you'll need some type of calcium supplement. Using ro/di water takes away about 100ppm that salt manufacturers do take into account. Even I use Reef Crystals & still get only around 350ppm on new salt batches.
What kind of electrical equipment do you have housed in your stand/sump? Tell me those are just switches and not fuses. Crazy set-up dude, but seems to be effective.
What kind of electrical equipment do you have housed in your stand/sump? Tell me those are just switches and not fuses. Crazy set-up dude, but seems to be effective.
