Dinoflagellates - anyone locally beat these things?

[rocknut]

So, I have now been battling Dinoflagellates in my 150 gallon tank since April, thinking I have had then beat several times only to have them pop back up. The latest round started over the weekend, and I have to say, I am pretty discouraged. Thought I would ask for experiences from other reefers here in Arizona that have direct, first hand experience with this plague. I have read, read some more, then read everything I can about them again, and after awhile you start to go a bit cross-eyed. This latest round seemed to pop up after I kicked up the flow on my EcoBAK pellets, which resulted in a slight increase in clear slime bio-film in my sump, so I'm not sure if there is a correlation or not, but it is the only change in my system that seemed to bring the dinos back after being gone for six weeks.
Up until this point I have tried:

3 day black out periods (three times) - this seems to help, but as soon as you begin bringing the lights back to a normal schedule, the dinos return.

Adding a kalk reactor to bump up ph. This has been difficult as my ph has been chronically low since the AC went on, and the windows were closed. However, I am getting up to around 8.1 now, and have some soda lime ready in case I need to set up a scrubber.

Chemiclean - this coupled with a three day black out period is what knocked them until they popped back up over the weekend. Might try this again.

Obviously, manual removal as well. First thing I do after work is blow off the rocks, sand, etc.


Personally, when I set up my first tank 10 years ago, I never heard about anyone fighting with dinos. It seems strange that you hear so much about them now? I have wondered if all the carbon dosing, biopellets, etc has gotten our tanks to the point where no competing algae can grow in our tanks, and this leaves the door open for the most opportunistic algae: dinoflagellates? I am thinking I will remove my biopellets and might consider setting up a large external refugium in hopes of growing some competing algae, and return some sort of balance?

Anyway, I have read a disturbing amount of threads were reefers have ultimately taken their tanks down over these little demons. Would really love to hear some thoughts from local reefers that have had some success with these.

Thanks,

Rocky

 

[skewlboy]

Aren't dino's linked to silica levels --- have you replaced your RO/DI filters lately?

 

[rocknut]

Aren't dino's linked to silica levels --- have you replaced your RO/DI filters lately?

Actually I took my entire Spectrapure Max Cap unit in to Spectrapure. They went thru the whole unit, tested everything, put in new filters, etc. That was my thought initially as well. The one big unknown still (amazing what pops into your head in the middle of the night) is that maybe my water storage container was having an issue? I use a 40 gallon plastic tank from Plasticmart. However, if I am for sure getting zero TDS water going into the storage tank, and zero TDS water going out, into my mixing tank, I think that means the water is clean? I asked Spectrapure this at one point, and was told that if the plastic container was leaching something into my RODI water, it should show up as a TDS reading?

 

[skewlboy]

you run GFO or Rowaphos? don't those products help with silica as well as phos - so even if it is making it in wouldn't it be filtered?

I think I have seen a testkit for silica somewhere... might just see if you can test your tank water (or your salt mix) to see if that is even an issue

 

[rocknut]

you run GFO or Rowaphos? don't those products help with silica as well as phos - so even if it is making it in wouldn't it be filtered?

I think I have seen a testkit for silica somewhere... might just see if you can test your tank water to see if that is even an issue

I actually haven't been running any GFO for a few months. Since I restarted my biopellets about five weeks ago, I took GFO offline to help the pellets by not limiting either NO3 or PO4. I think I'll take the pellets offline today, because I certainly feel like they have at least contributed to some sort of imbalance.

Also, think maybe I'll send a sample of my RODI water (directly from the storage container) to one of those water analysis companies.

 

[Vanpire]

I hate dinos also. They are your worst nightmare.

This is what I did in the past when I had them. I physically blow them off the rocks and sand and manually remove them daily. Then, after a week, I do the three days of no lights. They usually disappear at least for a long while.

I usually do the manual removal for a week because I am guessing that there is some imbalance in my tank. I figured that harvesting the dino will remove those nutrients from my tank. It usually works for me.

By the way, I don't do anything special for my tank. I just run a protein skimmer and have chaeto.

 

[skewlboy]

you get a new salt mix? or new bucket?

I'm sure everyone is different - i get dinos in my dark areas of the tank (under rock outcroppings on the sandbed). I have a lovely cyano bloom going on right now and the dino's aren't as notable (just the purple crap on the sandbed) - I recently changed my RO/DI filters (the silica buster from Spectrapur) and was winning the dino war (I thought) only to see a cyano bloom. Hoping it is just another phase in the tank cycle (up for 10 mo) -- but likely something is off. I run GFO and some chaeto in sump.

 

[saintsnsinners]

Control your excess nutrients.

 

[rocknut]

My guess, and it is only a guess, is that overdosed Pohls Xtra which is an amino acid supplement, because I was getting some faded colors due to biopellets running the tank ULNS. I think the low nutrients not allowing any algae other than corallin, and the aminos allowed the dinos to get a no competition foothold and go into overdrive.

I have been using ESV since the beginning, but it is possible I got a bad batch. Don't remember opening a new box prior to this happening, but it's possible.

 

[rocknut]

Control your excess nutrients.

I guess that is one of the more confusing aspects of this after doing lots of reading - some observations are that you see more dinos in low nutrient tanks because of the lack of competition, others say nutrients are the cause? I do have a pretty big skimmer skimming on the wet side, and have been running biopellets, but maybe nutrients are too high?

 

[rocknut]

you get a new salt mix? or new bucket?

I'm sure everyone is different - i get dinos in my dark areas of the tank (under rock outcroppings on the sandbed). I have a lovely cyano bloom going on right now and the dino's aren't as notable (just the purple crap on the sandbed) - I recently changed my RO/DI filters (the silica buster from Spectrapur) and was winning the dino war (I thought) only to see a cyano bloom. Hoping it is just another phase in the tank cycle (up for 10 mo) -- but likely something is off. I run GFO and some chaeto in sump.

Sorry, didn't see your full post on Tapatalk. Were you making progress doing more water changes once you got the RODI figured out? I have read a lot about a correlation between cyano and dinos lately. Makes me think that some biological imbalance is what starts these things.

 

[saintsnsinners]

Some people think dinos are a type of cyanobacteria. nothing to support this scientifically, however. it all starts with nutrients. all other remedies will not cure the tank of the problem in the long-term. if you have algae or cyano it means you have excess nutrients in your water.

 

[skewlboy]

yeah, I don't feed a ton but skim on the dry side. Coral (sps) are finally happy though and the colors are starting to really come along so I'm not sure I want start carbon dosing or biopellets. Hoping that this is just a phase and all will figure themselves out. Started to rinse my frozen food to see if that helps.

Testing isn't helping - always tests as 0 phos and 0 nitrate but likely they are like that from the algae/bacteria eating anyway. Taking my lumps with this hobby and trying to learn along the way I guess.

 

[saintsnsinners]

Yeah it may not help you feel better, but algae blooms are part of the game. I battled hair algae for months before I broke down and bought a bottle of marine algae fix. it was gone within 3 weeks. no harm to coral, fish or inverts.

 

[rocknut]

Yeah it may not help you feel better, but algae blooms are part of the game. I battled hair algae for months before I broke down and bought a bottle of marine algae fix. it was gone within 3 weeks. no harm to coral, fish or inverts.

Totally agree with you. With other types of algae it have always been reassured by at least having a game plan: increase water changes, reduce feeding, etc. These dinos just seem like an entirely different beast.

 

[bambam918]

I would say 4 months battling is normal. Once you have Dino or cyano it sticks for awhile, IME. Raising ALK to 11-11.5 helped me battle it and contring nutrients as other have stated. I would siphon the Dino's out with tubing you can get from ace hardware. The air line stuff is a little too small and clogs too easily. I would stop dosing any additives, amino's and such as well. You can of course keep dosing your ALK and CA

Best of luck and do t give up. We all have gone through it

 

[rocknut]

I would say 4 months battling is normal. Once you have Dino or cyano it sticks for awhile, IME. Raising ALK to 11-11.5 helped me battle it and contring nutrients as other have stated. I would siphon the Dino's out with tubing you can get from ace hardware. The air line stuff is a little too small and clogs too easily. I would stop dosing any additives, amino's and such as well. You can of course keep dosing your ALK and CA

Best of luck and do t give up. We all have gone through it

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts (and everyone else as well). I have kept my alk pretty low as I have been running biopellets, but if do take them offline, I can start to increase that - which should help boost/stabilize ph as well.

I've had a hard time siphoning as I haven't had the "snot" like mass, but have just had the strings with bubbles, which I can use a baster to blow off, but can't seem to suck them up. Might have to try again.

Did you do lights out, etc as part of your plan?

 

[mattix]

I've been at war with dinos for about 6 months. Recently found out they dinos and not diatomes, so I started battaling them. I did the 3 day lights off then a 25% water change after that. They were still present so a week after I started blowing and brushing off all of the dinos off the rocks. Then I would take out as much as I could that would build up on the sand bed with a turkey baster. I did this maybe 8 times in 2 weeks and rescaped all the rocks twice, (which allowed me to get all the dinos stuck inbetween the rocks).

Also bought a good size CUC from reefcleaners, started running carbon, haven't fed my corals in a few weeks, cut back on feeding the fish, blocked the sun from going directly into the tank, and cut back to 8 hours of light. So far looks about 95% of the dinos are gone, then I'm getting ready to do a 3 day lights out again. My ph is about 8.1 if nothing else works I was going to try and bring it up to 8.5.

 

[rocknut]

I would say 4 months battling is normal. Once you have Dino or cyano it sticks for awhile, IME. Raising ALK to 11-11.5 helped me battle it and contring nutrients as other have stated. I would siphon the Dino's out with tubing you can get from ace hardware. The air line stuff is a little too small and clogs too easily. I would stop dosing any additives, amino's and such as well. You can of course keep dosing your ALK and CA

Best of luck and do t give up. We all have gone through it

BamBam, curious after re-reading your post: were you running an ATS when you had your issues with dinos? I don't have any sort of refugium because I designed this tank to run with biopellets, and am now considering buying a 20-30 gallon frag tank, plumbing it into my sump, and using this for extra live rock and chaeto, hoping it would help outcompete the dinos. Just a thought...
Just another observation about nutrients: my biopellet reactor was dropping my NO3 down to undetectable when the dinos first bloomed. I know the argument is that the dinos absorb the nutrients before the test kits can measure them, but I was going for 7+ days without cleaning the glass, and had zero algae growth on the rock, and sand - until the dinos popped up.

 

[rocknut]

I've been at war with dinos for about 6 months. Recently found out they dinos and not diatomes, so I started battaling them. I did the 3 day lights off then a 25% water change after that. They were still present so a week after I started blowing and brushing off all of the dinos off the rocks. Then I would take out as much as I could that would build up on the sand bed with a turkey baster. I did this maybe 8 times in 2 weeks and rescaped all the rocks twice, (which allowed me to get all the dinos stuck inbetween the rocks).

Also bought a good size CUC from reefcleaners, started running carbon, haven't fed my corals in a few weeks, cut back on feeding the fish, blocked the sun from going directly into the tank, and cut back to 8 hours of light. So far looks about 95% of the dinos are gone, then I'm getting ready to do a 3 day lights out again. My ph is about 8.1 if nothing else works I was going to try and bring it up to 8.5.

Mattix - thanks for the feedback. Curious what kind of cleanup crew you added? That is one thing that really puzzled me at first: the majority of the info I could find on dinos stated that you would have a mass snail die off as the dinos are toxic. I have never had any snails die, in fact I have lots of baby snails as well.