DIY Group Design Skimmer

[skripo]

I am looking to build a skimmer and would like to make it a group effort, sort of like a Wikipedia project. I will be happy to write an article that details the theory of the design, it's construction, and parts suppliers once it is done.

I have done a lot of reading and choose the Deltec AP701 as the inspiration:

http://www.deltecusa.us/proteinskimmers/ap701.php

The only modification I will make is to use the Aerofoamer 800 series collection cup system.

http://www.reefconcepts.com/products/skimmers/800series/

The reason for this is that it eliminates the difficulty of building a collection cup and sealing it. The 6" union is a perfect solution (we would use a 4") because, like most of you, I always use the drain and consequently feel no need for a collection cup.

I do like the idea of a funnel throat but we will need to forgo it unless someone comes up with an easy source or part we can modify for our purposes. Some kind of decorative acrylic piece might work but let's remember to keep it simple.

I have built 2 of these Aerofoamer's and believe that we can use the best of the needle wheel design and Aerofoamer to make one hell of a kick *** skimmer.

The reaction chamber will be 12" acrylic and contain one Ocean Runner 2500 based needle wheel. The total height will be variable but be designed to fit under a cabinet. The foam riser will be 4" acrylic.

I know there will be a big pump debate but I have read enough to convince me that the OR is the quality and budget winner.

http://www.aqua-medic.de/index0.html

I am happy to hear all suggestions but remember that the goal of this thread is to engineer a skimmer with the quality and performence of a Deltec that can be easily built, so let's avoid long drawn out back and forth on pump or venturi discussions.

So let's get started with the questions:

Cylinder plumbing:

1) Does anyone have good closeup pics of the Deltec or similar pumps? I am specifically interested in the cylinder joiners.

I am planning to laminate 2-4 plexi plates, drill and tap, then use an 8" blade or implement to create a radius to match the cylinder. I prefer screw to glue but if a good alternative can be suggested i am all for it.

2) Does anyone know of a good ready made venturi we can use? I would like to use the turbo floater ones. Are they available seperately?

3) I want to use hard pipe throughout. Does anyone have any tips or tricks on doing this with the OR 2700?

4) Does anyone think a dual pump setup would be too much?

5) Does anyone have an issue with filling the return tube with bioballs to strip micro bubbles?

6) I like the small close fit unions used on the Deltec. Does anyone know where to get them? I would like to keep the pump as close to the cylinder wall as possible.

7) Does anyone know where to get 4" unions?

8) Does anyone feel a square skimmer sump box like the Aerofoamer's offers any advantages? Many people have stated that they like to use the whole tube for reaction but the bottom always works as a sump any way. It does add a lot of complexity to the build however.

I understand that this will not be a slap together job and that many parts may need customization. I do promise to try to use techniques available to every one. Ex: Use a drill press instead of a lathe to shape parts.

Let's get this party started!

 

[Donw]

Re: DIY Group Design Skimmer

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6318383#post6318383 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by skripo

I do like the idea of a funnel throat but we will need to forgo it unless someone comes up with an easy source or part we can modify for our purposes. Some kind of decorative acrylic piece might work but let's remember to keep it simple.

That pretty simple.

 

[skripo]

Did you vacuum form it using a bowl as the plug? Or was it some kind of heating? I was thinking of making a plug and vacuum molding but I was hoping for a simpler solution.

 

[Donw]

I made a solid form on the lathe. Then used the stove in a acrylic oreo with a hole in the middle. I did it this way so that the finish cuts can be done on the lathe and be dead center.

Don

 

[areze]

could use a metal kitchen mixing bowl too Id imagine.

neater idea that I had thought of is a square skimmer(for a million reasons of its own, primarily $$$$) but then you can funnel from a large square to a small square using a pyramid shape. which would be doable with an angling table saw.

 

[skripo]

Do you have pics of it cut out? I would love to see it from all angle. How smooth and consistent are the sides?

Nice work!

 

[Donw]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6319409#post6319409 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by skripo
Do you have pics of it cut out? I would love to see it from all angle. How smooth and consistent are the sides?

Nice work!

I put it on a friends skimmer so no pics. I can tell you it looked as good as any euro skimmer transition. I cut it with a rabbit to fit the tube on lathe. I used the form chucked up in the lathe with the cone attatched. Pretty much impossible to get it out of whack.

Don

 

[Mind_nl]

I've seen one of these DIY oven formed funels here before, let me see if I can find it...

EDIT: found it: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=700904
(I don't know what happend to the pictures....)

 

[spazz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6322162#post6322162 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mind_nl
I've seen one of these DIY oven formed funels here before, let me see if I can find it...

EDIT: found it: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=700904
(I don't know what happend to the pictures....)

every time i see this come up, i think of someone blowing up there oven. you should read the entire thread. down to where i posted what acrylic is made from. then think twice about sticking acrylic in your kitchen oven.

 

[spazz]

there are a few problems i see in this design. first is the pump used. the 2700 is a good pump. but its way too small for that size body. you will need the 3700 for that size skimmer. or 3-4 of the 2700's would work too. then the cup assembly is critical to performance. why do you think so many companys build the cups the same. because its a proven design. the airofomer design is not as effecient as a standard cup design is. i do alost of design work. im always trying to improve on a skimmers performance. its not easy to do. first you need to figure the amount of air you want to inject into your skimmer. then build a body big enough to handle that much air. then get the right pumps ir injection system to deliver that amount of air. then there is factors like angle of the cone, hight of the riser, diam of the riser, input fitting location, ect.... the first thing you need to state is what size tank will this skimmer go on? then what kind of animals are in this tank? whats the total gallons of the system? from there you can figure out the skimmer size and amount of pumps needed to skim that volume of water properly.
if you think im blowing smoke just do a search of threads i have started here in the diy section. im no expert but i do have some experince in the designing of skimmers.

 

[skripo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6322217#post6322217 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by spazz
there are a few problems i see in this design. first is the pump used. the 2700 is a good pump. but its way too small for that size body. you will need the 3700 for that size skimmer. or 3-4 of the 2700's would work too.

I based my choice on the diameter and height of the tube. Look at the 701. It has an 8" tube with a 600gph pump. I am using an 8" tube of the same height and pump of 602 GPH (if I am not mistaken). Good enough for Deltec good enough for me.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6322217#post6322217 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by spazz

then the cup assembly is critical to performance. why do you think so many companys build the cups the same. because its a proven design.

No it is not, the riser is critical to performance. The cup design needs to collect overflow properfly and is not critical. Companies build them the same between model because it is cheaper to do 1 production run then 7 different ones. If you mean the same between companies I agree. It is not a difficult thing to understand and works only one way.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6322217#post6322217 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by spazz

the airofomer design is not as effecient as a standard cup design is.

That is just plain false. The Aerofoamer was the top Beckett skimmer before needlewheels where introduced. It's lower efficiency has NOTHING to do with it's cup (that is the first time I heard a cup could affect efficiency!). It's lower efficiency has everything to do with it's injection system and flow speed.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6322217#post6322217 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by spazz
i do alost of design work. im always trying to improve on a skimmers performance. its not easy to do. first you need to figure the amount of air you want to inject into your skimmer. then build a body big enough to handle that much air. then get the right pumps ir injection system to deliver that amount of air. then there is factors like angle of the cone, hight of the riser, diam of the riser, input fitting location, ect.... the first thing you need to state is what size tank will this skimmer go on? then what kind of animals are in this tank? whats the total gallons of the system? from there you can figure out the skimmer size and amount of pumps needed to skim that volume of water properly.
if you think im blowing smoke just do a search of threads i have started here in the diy section. im no expert but i do have some experince in the designing of skimmers.

This is not the first skimmer I make so I appreciate what you're saying. I do not have the experience to design a skimmer from scratch which is why I was inspired by the AP701, which is by all accounts the best skimmer out there. It is a proven performer and everything is measured out for you, so why reinvent the wheel?

Changing the cup design, in my OPINION will not affect performance, the riser that concentrates the skimmer is identical except for the presence of a cup. I do concede that it is easier for the skimmate to overflow a tube, but the Aerofoamer could even improve the quality of the skimmate by allowing only a specific skimmate state to drain. If it is a problem, its only a little work to cut off the top and build a cup. No harm no foul. But if it does work well, then what a deal.

I would like to ask that we do not discuss the base skimmer design as it is identical to a proven performer. The skimmate collection mechanism is another story as it does vary form the original. My feeling on this is that it is a better design for my purposes and if it does not work I will just add a cup.

 

[stugray]

How about this for simple:

The "funnel" on top is made from a 5 Gal. water jug.

The collection cup is a threaded unit for an older skimmer.

For a venturi, I was planning on trying one of those waterbed drain kits.

I havent fired this one up yet, so I cant comment on performance.

Stu

 

[skripo]

Cool

 

[GROSSR]

On my Lifereef the top of the body is flat. I noticed on the AP600 it also flat. As far as the cup is concerned I think my cap is important as well. The cap is a disc with center cut out, and put in the cut out is collection area for carbon. This area is recessed into the cup. It leaves a gap of about 1". I notice that when the skimmate is bubbling it either forces breaking bubbles out to the side or aid in keeping the bubbles up high. When I clean the skimmer the bottom of this recessed area is thick with gunk.

rich