DIY Grow Out Setup - Day By Day

Hadn't thought about the smell yet Steve, thanks for bringing that to my attention before I plumbed it for air. I'm not all that worried about the ammonia and nitrites anyways (plenty of facilities on hand for dealing with those), so boosting the efficiency of the trickle isn't really nessecary.

I've always had problems with nitrates though, even in my display tank. Since my rearing tanks will likely have lots more bio load, and a lot less sand and LR, I'm a bit concerned about that aspect. I'll probably end up with a coil and DSB before it's all said and done. Nitrate removal requires an anoxic (or at least highly anaerobic) zone doesn't it? Sounded as if you might be saying the trickle wouild be for nitrate removal, want to make sure I'm not missing something.
 
Trickle is for ammonia and nitrite. Aerobic.
coil or dsb is for nitrate. Anaerobic.

I think you need both aerobic and anaerobic.

1. trickle and a lot of water changes.
or
2. tricle and dsb
or
3. trickle and coil
 
Thanks Kathy, that's what I thought, but as we all know, my newbie-ness still shows up now and then. I have a feeling that will be a life-long attribute.

I think I'll go with #4 - Trickle, DSB, Coil, Magnum 350, Fuge, Macroalgae, Live Rock, Live Sand, AND lots of water changes :D

Is it proper to use Carbon on a rearing tank? If so, how often and for how long at a time? I do about 1 week, once a month on my display. I can't really see where there would be that much difference between a Reef tank and a growout w/ LR/LS in a fuge, other than the volume of LR/LS per gallon.

Of course, there is also the volume of gunk per gallon which will be higher in the growout system. I'm looking into skimmers for it, I assume it would be smart to go with one rated higher than the actual gallons involved, due to the higher nutrient levels?

Jason
 
I would go with TWO skimmers, both good quality ones. That way you can clean them on alternating days and don't have down-time when the skimmers don't skim well because they are either too clean or too dirty.

I would worry less about the skimmer's "rating" (which is pretty much a made-up number by the marketing staff) and focus on best placement and other practices to get a high quality skim. This is a good chance to set up your skimmer so it is fed from the overflow if you have enough flow, and have one less pump running using electricity and generating heat.

If you go with carbon (I don't see a downside if you change it regularly, but wait for the more experienced to chime in), definately buy in bulk. Locally we have set up a couple of group buys from a company that supplies carbon to water companies (and the big Aquarium of the Pacific). We carefully checked out the supply, it was an excellent grade, and ended up paying about $1/pound... in 50 pound sacks!
 
I agree you will want a skimmer capable of taking care of that high "gunk per gallon" reading in the growout ;) Nicole has a good point there. I always have a few hours per week after skimmer cleaning when the skimmer "simmers" before it takes off again, and of course the efficiency goes down throughout the week as the skimmer gets dirty. It might be something to think about if you have room.

Before I started using ozone, I would run carbon in a HOT magnum for 1 week/month on the growout to clear up the water and remove organics. I don't know if this was really necessary, but it made the tanks look nicer and I don't think it hurt :)
 
Well Matt, your tanks definitely looked nice in the pic I saw. I may look into Ozone too, but later on down the road.

Thanks Nicole, I think I read about that "two-skimmer plan" in Anthony's book, but had forgotten about it. This is why I started this thread! I'll have to look into this gravity fed skimmer thing, sounds interesting, and if I plumb it with that in mind, I should be able to make it work. One of the skimmers I was looking at comes with what would be a great return pump for the sump too.

I can pick up some skimmers real cheap right now, the hardware and pumps are great, but it's a short, stubby thing. I had considered saving some money and buying some extruded acrylic tube and making them about twice as tall. I can get two of these for about $60 (marketing guys rated them for 150g). Any thoughts on my money saving ways when I should be spending more for the best equipment ;)

54_1.JPG
 
Is my reasoning correct that the longer I make the coil, the faster the water could travel through it?

dont even try to build a denitrifier until you KNOW how it works, cause that reasoning is wrong....

Anyone consider a deep sand bed bucket
not really going to enough for a breeding setup, might be fine for a reef though, all you need is a properly sized coil denitrator.

and dont jump too fast on airline tubing it makes a poor selection of tubing for a coil denitrator.
 
there are a few floating around in here, some in r.a.m.r (old news group search around ... google)

the best source of info is going to be older '70s era waste water papers they are FULL of cool things like formulas and scientific talk.
 
OK rsman, I've done a fair amount of reading, and defintely think the coil is the way to go. I also understand why my statement about longer tube=faster water sounded so insane. A better way to say what i meant was that a very short coil, would have to have insanely slow flow to be effective, but if it was longer, it could be effective with a slightly higher flow...after all my reading today, it's kind of a moot point.

I found some of the waste water documents that had great (albeit above my head for the most part) info. You don't happen to still have a copy of that spreadsheet you built do you??

It's starting to make sense, or better, I have the basic principles grasped. I like the fact that you'll always correct someone if they are wrong, so I offer my services here :D

All the calculations for pressure and resistance for a specific diameter/coil size/length combination make sense. Building one using the proper calculations for diameter and length to give me the proper ratio of flow to surface area in anoxic zones would yeild positive results, so how did you make your guestimate for a starting point that would handle your system? I'm guessing you calculated one to function properly wide open, and deduced the proper hose length for a diameter that was readily available to you?

So, NOW how far off track am I ;) Possibly farther than I was before, I've only scratched the surface, but want to know if I understand the basics properly.
 
I found some of the waste water documents that had great (albeit above my head for the most part) info.
any chance you found them online at a free location, id like to have reference, I had gone to the local Univ to search the library many years ago...

You don't happen to still have a copy of that spreadsheet you built do you??
donno, not at work thats for sure, and while I am on RC having lots of fun, I am at work and am supposed to be getting ready for an insane weekend (hopefully)

I like the fact that you'll always correct someone if they are wrong, its nicer when I am correcting them and I am right :D

All the calculations for pressure and resistance for a specific diameter/coil size/length combination make sense I am glad they do to you, they always seem to give me a headache .... :bounce1:

so how did you make your guestimate for a starting point that would handle your system? very badly :D build it so you can increase the number of coils if you are thinking you will ever expand your setup. this way when you underbuild you can correct for it.

I'm guessing you calculated one to function properly wide open, and deduced the proper hose length for a diameter that was readily available to you? this is how you should start. instead my first was a mistake and I did what everyone else here has and used stupid material, and set it up all wrong. :D then i was corrected.

one thing you have to do is ignore the current level of nitrate, its the amount of water and rise of nitrate over a period of time that needs to be in the calculation. the post cycle output will have nearly 0 nitrates, and the input numbers have no effect on this. its only how much of the volume do you process in a period of time, and how it compares to the nitrate rise over the same time period.
 
rsman,

What should be used instead of airline tubing. One of the threads that I read earlier, (sometime ago now) talked about using RO tubing.

Steve
 
icemaker like tubing is fine, RO tubing is fine, it should not be easily squished, that black irrigation tubing works great.
 
Good! That means I am least grasping the basics. I was thinking about that black irrigation tubing as I read your post about tubing. It's rigid enough, and cheaper that the ice-maker/RO stuff.

The description of Nitrate rise per gallons of system water makes a lot of the info make sense. I was trying to reach a conclusion based on a guessed Nitrate reading. Expandable would be the key, thanks!

The info I found was "sort-of" online. I still have a membership to the Dallas Public Library system even though I haven't lived there in over a year. They did a big electronic documentation initiative several years back, andf much of the best stuff was there. I did find some good stuff via google, and have them bookmarked from work. I'll try to get them compiled into a list today, but we have big-wigs coming in, and I'm slated for meetings most of the day.

I think I will try a coil on my display, which has a known Nitrate rise (2-3ppm per week) and by the time I get ready to start up the entire grow out system, I should have some idea how effective it is. It'll be a few more paychecks before I can get everything purchased for the growout :D
 
I personally don't think denitrators or denitrifiers are necesary, water changes are enough to keep it at safe levels. Keeping the tank clean , siphoning etc. will remove potential nitratres.

Stay away for super efficient skimmers or oversized units.

A good trickle filter will do.

Ed
 
Interesting Ed, with the amount of food I will be adding to the growout system (eventually 12-16 10g's full of babies) I assumed "more was better". I had been thinking about upgrading the sump with a bigger container, maybe 50 gallons or so and adding a deeper sand bed, maybe that with a decent skimmer would do the job.

The denitrifying coil is more of a pet project, I love things that are effective, yet simple (in design, not theory). I really just want to see if I can make it work.

I hope my trickle filter will be "good". I plan to work on it some more tonight, it's 4 ft. tall with a diameter of 2". It will be full of bio-balls with a simple 1/4" water feed at the top, it will drain out the bottom back into the sump.

While we're on that subject, I have some old bio-balls from my Magnum, and bought some cheap "pond filter" balls from Home Depot. After that, I found a HUGE box of regular bio-balls at my work. After asking around, I found that we use them as moisture collectors (they collect and drip water from the top of an Oxygen Scrubber on our Hydrogen Flouride furnace). We buy them 1000 at a time for less than a penny a peice! Is there an advantage/disadvantage to the standard blue and white bio balls we are all used to as they relate to a trickle filter?
 
Just get a skimmer for 160-200 gallons, remenber more skimmers are designed for reef tanks that require a very low nutrient water. If you want to really improve it, think about adding ozone to Grow out. The big ones, with powerful pumps do more harm than good , trust me.

try to contact the supplier of the "bio balls" and ask them what material are they made of.

Your trickle filter seems small, if you plan on having an average of 200 fish in 10 gal. you will need more, otherwise you will be having ammonia and nitrite readings even after months. For a system like that I recomend about 10 gallons of bio balls maybe more with the heavy feedings.

I have a good friend who uses this ( see pic) old school aquarists may recognize it. It has a great bio load capacity. I use that along with sand filters.

http://www.petsolutions.com/Images/100/88330386.jpg

Ed
 
Ed, Ok what is that?

Jason, Where are you getting the black irigation tubing cheaper than the RO tubing. I looked at Lowes last time I was in the US, Princeton, NJ, and the "RO" type tubing (poly... something or other) was 7c plf whilst the black irigation tubing was 8c plf. Not that 1c difference is tht great.

Steve
 
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