DIY LED Project for RSM 130 help

A

arking_mark

Premium Member
Faced with replacing my t5 builds, I decided to retrofit my RSM 130 with LEDs. I figured there are several benefits to doing this:

1. Better more consistent lighting
2. Reduced heat
3. Long term cost savings

I looked at both Rapidled and Steve's LEDs for the RSM 130, but felt both came up a little short. I felt that the LEDs they where offering were less then optimal. So doing a little research I found the following:

Ratio was easy: Good ratio = 2:1 Royal Blue to Neutral White (for full spectrum). Everything else is just for looks (UVs/Violet for more coral pop, coral white for additional spectral coverage and fish pop)

The harder part was how many LEDs are needed for the RSM 130D which measures 23.5" x 15.5" x 18.5". A good source for this was: https://reefledlights.com/ledmytank/ However, retrofitting the RSM will have some limitations:

1. Limited space for the heatsink and LEDs: 20" x 4.5" x 1.5"
2. LEDs will by ~2.25" from the water

Additionally, I am not planning on using 700ma LEDs, but rather 1000ma versions. So I came up with the following setup:

Heatsink = 18" of http://www.heatsinkusa.com/4-230-wide-extruded-aluminum-heatsink/ (4.23" x 18" x 1.05")

LEDs = 10 x Solderless Cree 3up http://www.clay-boa.com/solderless-cree-xt-e-3up/. Chose these because they claim to reduce disco effect of spaced out LEDs, and because they use the highest-end CREEs for the LEDs.

Spaced equidistant in the tank ~ every 4" (1st set of LEDs will be 1" on heatsink)

-----------------------------
|+ + + + +|
| |
|+ + + + +|
------------------------------

This will provide 20 Royal Blue and 10 Neutral White.

The rest of the equipment is as follows:

Coralux 5UP LDD driver board with 3 Meanwell LDD-1000H LED Driver. 10 LEDs on each driver. The 5UP board will allow for 2 future drivers if needed (UV/Violet and Coral White). However, I doubt I will make that upgrade anytime soon.

Storm-x for the controller to provide "Flawless control over all aspects of lightning"

For power, Mean Well SE-350-48.

Now for the help:
1. Will the quantity of LEDs provide enough lighting for SPS and Clams? If not, how many more LEDs will I need?
2. Will the spacing of the LEDs provide even lighting throughout the aquarium?
3. Does the 3up configuration of LEDs really provide benefit?
4. Is the Storm-x that much better then the Storm?

Thanks for any advice...
 
I just removed the cover and installed my led with a regular goose neck. Since I didn't carve up my hood I can still go back to using it if I feel like. Increased the evap a little but reduced the temp a lot. With the hood on I couldn't keep it below 80.
 
arking_mark said:
Additionally, I am not planning on using 700ma LEDs, but rather 1000ma versions. [Chop]

LEDs = 10 x Solderless Cree 3up http://www.clay-boa.com/solderless-cree-xt-e-3up/. Chose these because they claim to reduce disco effect of spaced out LEDs, and because they use the highest-end CREEs for the LEDs.

This will provide 20 Royal Blue and 10 Neutral White.

The rest of the equipment is as follows:

Coralux 5UP LDD driver board with 3 Meanwell LDD-1000H LED Driver. 10 LEDs on each driver. The 5UP board will allow for 2 future drivers if needed (UV/Violet and Coral White). However, I doubt I will make that upgrade anytime soon.

Storm-x for the controller to provide "Flawless control over all aspects of lightning"

For power, Mean Well SE-350-48.

Now for the help:
1. Will the quantity of LEDs provide enough lighting for SPS and Clams? If not, how many more LEDs will I need?
2. Will the spacing of the LEDs provide even lighting throughout the aquarium?
3. Does the 3up configuration of LEDs really provide benefit?
4. Is the Storm-x that much better then the Storm?
Click to expand...
Your link to Clay-boa doesn't work (for me?).

Anyway, to try and answer your questions...
1. I'd think 30 LEDs of decent quality at 3W may be OK for an RSM130. Personally I'd put more on, driven at lower current (more light per watt, less heat)
2. The three up clusters spread evenly across a heat sink should give an even spread of light, yeah.
3. Yes. You don't need to do it that way, but it will minimise the rainbow effect. There are other ways tho. They require more soldering!
4. For 3 channels? No!

I would also add that XTEs are not the best (by quite a margin) that Cree do for whites (XPG, XPG2, XML or XML2). Not bad considering how cheap you can get them, but IMO XPG2 form a better value balance.

Royal blue and neutral white I wouldn't really call full spectrum, although the neutral white helps. Personally I'd put some (XPE2) blue in the mix, too!

Have you seen this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEDbloke-PR...it-for-RSM-Red-Sea-Max-130-130D-/251644901079

Not cheap, but genuinely is worth a look!!!

Tim
 
Thanks for the feedback. A couple more questions/comments...

I am trying to keep the costs reasonable. Adding more LEDs increases cost. By my calculations, ~40% increase in power (700ma --> 1000ma) produces 30% more Radiant and luminous flux. Adding 30% more LEDs would require 10 more LEDs and another driver to the cost ~$36 ~10% more then current build (~$365). I guess the added benefit would be even more even distribution of light. Will heat be a problem with the 1000ma? I would think that the LEDs run cooler then the T5 bulbs and the oversized heatsink with existing fans would be more then adequate.

The 3up clusters seem to be the best affordable combo and use the same LEDs in the link you provided. If I go with the XPG2, then I would have to forgo the 3up clusters and somehow arrange LEDs to avoid rainbow. If I was only using White/Blue combos (which I am)...may be ok. Also, most ratios I have seen are based off of the Crees I selected. Using the more powerful whites, what would the ratio be?

Switching to the Storm will save me $30. Any real drawbacks to this? I would still be able to expand to 3 more drivers if I wanted to add more LEDs like violet/UV or coral white or even XPG2s.

thanks

Mark
 
You might want to check out the radion diy thread, you can get two G3 pucks for 150 from the Eco tech website.
 
That extra 10% of power is being converted to heat. Add more of the same LEDs and run at the same power and you'd get 30% more light and 30% more heat. But whether that's an issue or not depends on the spec of the heat sink.

The kit I linked uses a mix of XTE royal blue and XPE2 blues, which gives a better colour balance but isn't required just to get coral growth :)

Personally, using the better whites (XPG2) isn't about getting more light, it's about getting the same light and less heat due to the increased efficiency. You just turn them down a bit with the controller, so use slightly less watts, get the same light and less heat :)

I'll check the spec sheets when I get chance, but off the top of my head the main difference between the storm and storm x (apart from the number of channels which doesn't matter to you as both have more than you need) is the dimming resolution. The storm X gives much finer control, easily noticeable at low light levels.

Tim
 
Ok. Alternative plan:

20 x Cree XT-E Royal Blue
10 x Cree XM-L2 White Neutral
3 x Meanwell LDD-1000H LED Driver
1 x 250w 48v 5.2A DC Power Supply
1 x Coralux 5UP LDD driver board
1 x Storm Controller
1 x 18" x 4.23" Heatsink

LED Layout: 2 rows of LEDS ~3" apart, each row will have 5 "clusters" of LEDs (1 NW, 2 RB) spaced ~4" apart:

-RBRB----RBRB----RBRB----RBRB----RBRB-
--NW------NW-------NW------NW------NW--
-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------
--NW------NW-------NW------NW------NW--
-RBRB----RBRB----RBRB----RBRB----RBRB-

Another possible layout:
-RBNWRB--RBNWRB--RBNWRB--RBNWRB--RBNWRB-
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
-RBNWRB--RBNWRB--RBNWRB--RBNWRB--RBNWRB-

A couple of questions:
1. Going with these LEDs instead of the 3up (all on one star) I get more efficient white (XM-L2 over the XT-E). However, the LEDs are more spread out. Will there be a noticeable rainbow effect over the 3ups? Will this setup have a more even distribution of light (less spot-lighting) over the 3up as the LEDs are more spread out?

2. Which of the above two layouts would be better, and why? Or is there a better way to lay out the LEDs?

3. In the future I may add UV/Violet and/or coral white and/or other colors to enhance. Do either of the two layouts lend themselves better for expansion? Or is there a better way to lay out the LEDs?

Remember, this is a retrofit and the LEDs will be ~2" over the H2O. So pucks and tightly clustered layouts will probable not work as they need elevation to distribute light to the whole tank. Or am I missing something?

Thanks-

Mark
 
Sounds good to me. The XML2s are a fair step up from the XTEs :)

I think, for mounting close to the water, the separate LEDs spread out over the heat sink will help spread and minimise any rainbow effect. The only reason this may hinder adding more at a later date is if you end up limited for space on the heat sink.

Personally I'd go for the 4 rows of LEDs but mix whites and blues on each row. Makes the wiring a bit messier but it'll be hidden in the hood :)

Got any details on the heat sink (ideally °C/W)? An 18x4" heat sink still leaves a lot of scope for good or bad!

Tim
 
LOL - pretty good!

The web site says the 4.23" is 0.300°C per watt, for each 3" of heat sink. That's a slightly misleading way of quoting it since doubling the length doesn't half the temp rise per watt. But, if you follow that rule, you have six times 3" (18" long) so a sixth of that would be 0.050°C per watt.

You are running roughly 90W. So, that's a 4.5°C rise! OK, the heat sink wont really have a 0.05°C/W rating (6 three inch ones would, but not one 18" lump). But even if it has half that capacity, that's only a 9°C rise!

Maybe a bit more, since it'll be enclosed in a hood, but then you also have the fact that you actually expect some (with XML2s and XTEs at 1A, probably about half ish!) of that 90W to be converted into light, not heat :)

I find the quoted 0.3°C/W a very impressive figure (maybe a little too impressive!), but even if that is only achievable in "ideal circumstances" I think you are well catered for with that heat sink :)

Tim
 
Ok. Close to final design.

Layout attached.

Questions:
1. Will layout provide even distribution of light? Minimize Disco? Minimize Spotlighting?
2. Too many/little LEDs?
3. Right selection of LEDs for an RSM 130d (24x18x20)?

Parts list:

3.5" x 20" extruded aluminum heatsink
8 x Cree XT-E 3up
10 x Hyper Violet
7 x Nichia Neutral White
4 x Meanwell 1000h LDD
1 x Meanwell 700h LDD
1 x Coralux LDD Driver Board
1 x 250w 48v 5.2apm DC Power Supply
1 x Blue Fish Mini
50 x 4-40 1/4 Nylon Screws
1 x 4-40 Bottom Tapping Tool and drill bit
1 x 100w 12v DC Power Supply
25' of 24awg Solid wire
1 x Thermal Grease
 

Attachments

  • RSM130LedRetro4.jpg
    RSM130LedRetro4.jpg
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That's changed a bit! I still don't know what those 3ups are - mix of blue & white? All white?

And, personally, I'd use 22AWG for 1A.

That's one hell of a meaty 12V supply! What are you running from that?

Tim
 
XT-E 3ups have 2 Royal Blue + 1 Neutral White on one board. Supposedly reduces disco effects of spread out LEDs.

Thanks for the suggestion. 22AWG it is...


Mark
 
So I'm guessing 4 of the three ups on one each of the LDD1000s? Nichias on LDD1000 - but that still leaves another LDD1000 :confused:

And I assume the hyper violets on the LDD700.

That mix could leave you a bit heavy on the white, but you should be able to balance it out using the controller and I don't think you'll be struggling for light power.

Also, I would add - I prefer steel screws and silicon washers, rather than nylon ones. Nylon should work, but steel just gives me more confidence.

What's the 100W 12V PSU for?

Tim
 
The XT-E 3up has 2 Royal Blue and 1 Neutral White. With 8 of them, I have 16 RB and 8 NW. I figured 8 RB on LDD1000, 8 RB on another LDD1000, and 8 NW on another LDD1000.

The 12v supply is for the Blue Fish Mini. It is an existing supply on my system being used for my DIY ATO.

The Nichia have a 90CRI which I am told basically can be used instead of adding additional colors such as reds, blues, lime, etc...as it accurately displays all colors.

Mark
 
Ah - didn't realise they were separately controllable (can you supply a link to them which works?).

Using high CRI whites (which tend to be warm/neutral, not cool) is a reasonable alternative to dropping extra colours in. As you are keeping all colours on their own strings, you should be able to get the colour balance working for you :)

Does the lid have any fans in? May as well use the supply for them as well, if so!

Tim
 
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