DIY- "Pins" method of gluing acrylic.

[Acrylics]

For anyone that wants to see what stress can do:

Take some 1" Acrolite FF material

Flame polish the crap out of it and I mean torch it good.

then take some ethanol alcohol and pour it on the material.

It will literally pop apart into small pieces........quite fun to watch!!!

Funny, I do the same thing with extruded tube to display crazing to my customers. Extruded tube is under such high stress already that a quick polish and one spray of alcohol will to the trick. I always like watching customer's eyes when I literally pull the tubing apart with my hands

As far as wire goes, you get get small segments of various wire sizes at www.smallpartsinc.com as well. They have malleable stainless steel wire that I use quite a bit.

James

 

[melev]

Thanks for your great thread, Zephrant. Here's what I made:

http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/tank/80g_sump.html

btw, you've got a PM.

 

[NAGA]

Looks very good!!!:thumbsup:

 

[GrayWhale]

Any suggestions on how to glue two pieces of acrylic face to face? I'm thinking of euro-bracing a 100g with two layers of 1/2" laminated together with lapped corner joints. It seems like this would be a more efficient use of materials than buying a 1" sheet, most of which would be cut away.

 

[Acrylics]

Any suggestions on how to glue two pieces of acrylic face to face? I'm thinking of euro-bracing a 100g with two layers of 1/2" laminated together with lapped corner joints. It seems like this would be a more efficient use of materials than buying a 1" sheet, most of which would be cut away.

More efficient - yes, but not nearly as strong. In doing a lap joint eurobrace alot of the stress is applied to the two corners which are more apt to crack while a radius corner will distribute the stress throughout the radius. More area per "X" amount of stress = more overall stress tolerance.
If you want to do the lap joint thing though, you can use solvent, Weld-on 40, make a laminating cement (methylene chloride and acrylic "nerf", or a variety of other ways.

HTH,
James

 

[achilles1]

weld-on 42

weld-on 42

Will the pin method work with weld-on 42? I know it's thick like syrup, put I would think that I would be able to fill the joint with the aplicator. I plan on using 1/2" acrylic. Can I still get a clear bubble free result? If excess comes out of the joint should I wipe it away or will it ruin the finish to the point that I can't polish it back to normal?

 

[Zephrant]

I've not tried #42 yet, but have been considering it. I have heard that it is pretty thick, moose-snot comes to mind as the term used. I don't know if you could force it in the gap without using large pins, then you would have a lot of ooze when you pulled them.

Anyone try it before?

Zeph

 

[NAGA]

I have not personally used it but, some of my co workers have. They say it is not the easiest to work with. The cartridges make it very hard to push the glue through. The ratio of the mix is predetermined and does not allow you to compensate for temperature. At around 80 degrees you have about 20 minutes to work with it. Also a lot of glue gets wasted in the long tip that is on the set up used to mix it before it comes out. Definitely not an efficient way of doing it IMO. On another note it is expensive. If one is worried about the ooze (excess) that come out of the joint you can use mylar tape along the edge and after it just begins to set up you can pull the tape up and get the glue cleanly off. You have less than a 5 minute window to do this because if you do it too soon the glue has not begun to harden enough and you just make a mess. If you wait too long the glue harden enough so you cannot snap it off.


HTH<

 

[Acrylics]

I've not tried #42 yet, but have been considering it. I have heard that it is pretty thick, moose-snot comes to mind as the term used. I don't know if you could force it in the gap without using large pins, then you would have a lot of ooze when you pulled them.

Anyone try it before?

Zeph

It is fairly thick and should not (IMO) be used with the "pins" method. One thing you really don't want to do is compress Weld-on 40/42, what you end up doing is squeezing it all out ending up with a dry/weak joint. Weldon 40/42 does not act in the same way as "normal" solvents as it is not a solvent at all but an acrylic resin that attacks the acrylic to be glued, albeit not nearly as much as regular solvent. Think of 40/42 as a "glue" whereas solvent creates a direct bond between two pieces.
If you use 40/42, you need to leave a slightly angled gap to fill - maybe .060-.090" Overfill this and allow for shrinkage, it will shrink about 20% +/-. Then flush cut, sand, and finish. many people leave a small piece of acrylic in the joint to create this gap - kinduva spacer of sorts, this piece is later cut off during finishing.
Another thing about 40/42 is you don't want to leave to too large a gap as it creates alot of heat in it's reaction - it can put off enough heat to smoke and *possibly* (I've heard stories) self combust. With 40 you can compensate for this somewhat by adjusting your mix ratios but cure time takes much longer, with 42 this is not allowed for at all as it is pre-portioned.
As Naga pointed out - it is expensive at $180 for the gun, $28 per cartridge, and about $1.50 per tip for the straight tips up to $14 per tip for the flexible ones which are disposed of after each use. If you are in the business and do this sort of thing often, it's a marvelous time saver (time is money) but probably doesn't make a whole lotta sense for most DIYers/hobbyists IMHO.

HTH,
James

 

[Zephrant]

Thanks for the tips on the 40/42 guys- I've been considering it but have been balking at the costs involved.

Zeph

 

[achilles1]

This is a great thread! 42 is really expensive! 40 Is the same formula, but you can change the mix ratios and don't have the cost of the gun. I supposed you would brush it on the edge of the acylic and then join it. I don't know what that does for bubbles and oozing, but those are the two formulas they recommend for aqauriums. Is weld-on #4 really strond enough to hold a 1/2" 180 gallon sump?

 

[Acrylics]

This is a great thread! 42 is really expensive! 40 Is the same formula, but you can change the mix ratios and don't have the cost of the gun. I supposed you would brush it on the edge of the acylic and then join it. I don't know what that does for bubbles and oozing, but those are the two formulas they recommend for aqauriums. Is weld-on #4 really strond enough to hold a 1/2" 180 gallon sump?

Try mixing it (#40) in a tupperware dish then pouring it into the top of a syringe (I use 50cc) then replace the plunger and fill where needed.

Cyro recommends polymerizable and they do have their reasons but just about every "hobby" tank will be made by using solvent cements such as Weldon 4, so yes - it is very strong if done correctly.

James

 

[Zephrant]

Acrylics- Have you found a source for 1oz glass syringes? I've been using 2oz squeeze bottles, but a local jobber has these big glass syringes that he says are the best.

Zeph

 

[melev]

James, Zephrant,

I think I want to attempt to build an acrylic tank to replace my 29g. Using cell cast acrylic, would 3/8" be a good thickness for a tank that is 30 x 20 x 20? I'm going to put a black acrylic wall in the rear, to hide a closed loop pump and provide a real overflow with drilled holes in the base. Because it is acryliic, I may notch the rear to make room for my Remora to hang on the back.

I'd like to stay with 3/8", so if 20" is too tall for that thickness, I could drop it down to 18". Would that still swell too much?

My current tank is glass, 30 x 12 x 18.

 

[marm64]

.

Acrylics- Have you found a source for 1oz glass syringes?

I would check out a place that sells supplies for farm animals. I did find some glass at a feed store but can not remember if they had ones as large as 1 oz though

 

[Acrylics]

Acrylics- Have you found a source for 1oz glass syringes? I've been using 2oz squeeze bottles, but a local jobber has these big glass syringes that he says are the best.

Zeph,
Sure, we get them here in Portland if you're ever down this way
I just don't like them 'cuz if you don't clean them out right away the plunger sticks in the syringe. With poly syringes, you can leave them in there, let the 40 cure and just blow the plunger and 40 plug right out with compressed air (target practice). The other thing is that I rarely apply 40 with just the syringe - normally I put a vinyl or silicone hose over the nipple of the syringe so I can get into tight places easier.
All that said, we can get them for you should you wish.

James

 

[Acrylics]

I think I want to attempt to build an acrylic tank to replace my 29g. Using cell cast acrylic, would 3/8" be a good thickness for a tank that is 30 x 20 x 20? I'm going to put a black acrylic wall in the rear, to hide a closed loop pump and provide a real overflow with drilled holes in the base. Because it is acryliic, I may notch the rear to make room for my Remora to hang on the back.

I'd like to stay with 3/8", so if 20" is too tall for that thickness, I could drop it down to 18". Would that still swell too much?

My current tank is glass, 30 x 12 x 18.

Marc,
You should be fine with that thickness. The only thing that may concern me is the notch for the skimmer. Is this to be in the top or the actual back of the tank?
Keep in mind, some mfrs (no names this time, jab jab) use 1/4" on 55 gal tanks, not that I recommend this - but...

Would that swell too much? Marc? All cell cast acrylic absorbs water but not more than about 1% by weight so I wouldn't worry about swelling too much.

BTW, I know I should stop buggin' yo about it but when you gonna build that tank? or is this another step in that direction? If so - are you starting to feel more confident/comfortable with it?
Don't make me build it for you

HTH,
James

 

[melev]

When I saw 'notch', I was thinking that although it should be a perfect rectangle, for me to have room for the Remora, I'd have to inset about 4" x 8" across the back. (The actual back of the tank.) Which would break up the rectangular shape. Perhaps I can hang it off the rear side corner instead....

If it does swell, it would distort the view, and make photography really tricky.

I talked to my LFS tonight about a new tank to replace my 29g since it is so scratched and 5 years old. A new one would cost me less than $50, but a slightly larger one (front to back), plus drill holes, would run me $170. Making my own is beginning to sound like a great idea! Would the Piranha magnet work okay on 3/8"? I have the acrylic pad for it.

Yes, this is yet another step closer. Where are you located James? I'd love to just drive out your way, and build the L shaped tank with you. I'd learn so much, and I bet it would be absolutely trustworthy. Plus I'd get to meet you finally. :thumbsup:

 

[Acrylics]

When I saw 'notch', I was thinking that although it should be a perfect rectangle, for me to have room for the Remora, I'd have to inset about 4" x 8" across the back. (The actual back of the tank.) Which would break up the rectangular shape. Perhaps I can hang it off the rear side corner instead....

This type of thing actually makes me somewhat nervous, to tell you the truth.

If it does swell, it would distort the view, and make photography really tricky.

Oh, ok, I know what you mean now - we usually call that bowing or deflection I thought you were referring to the material itself actually swelling in size and/or thickness. My bad...
It will bow some but not too much, maybe 1/8" - 3/16"or so I would guess.

I talked to my LFS tonight about a new tank to replace my 29g since it is so scratched and 5 years old. A new one would cost me less than $50, but a slightly larger one (front to back), plus drill holes, would run me $170. Making my own is beginning to sound like a great idea! Would the Piranha magnet work okay on 3/8"? I have the acrylic pad for it.

Not sure, never used a magnet. I make my own scrapers

Yes, this is yet another step closer. Where are you located James? I'd love to just drive out your way, and build the L shaped tank with you. I'd learn so much, and I bet it would be absolutely trustworthy. Plus I'd get to meet you finally. :thumbsup:

I'm just south of Portland, OR. Should you ever be in the 'hood...

James

 

[wiliiam]

What I use are aplicater bottles for porceline painting. they hold about 3 ozs and have small "needles". Iget them at Michaels