DIY Rimless Starphire and Stainless Kiddy Pool (PICS!)
- Thread starter liveforphysics
- Start date
Luke, You tech junkie ....... 
Nice plan, I hope , The vfd lasts long term I dont see why it would not!!!!!!!!
I am trying to Visualize this wave actio and I had a few thoughts on how it might work. sooo...
I wanna know since 1 motor supplies the flow/wave...
Does it get pumped in all from 1 side and make a wave from one side to the other?
Or maybe the water rushes in everywhere and the tottal tank level rises but then pulls to the drain wich is on one side?
I would Love to see it some time, I can bring you a frag or two for your new tank...When you think it's in good enoughp shape for that !!! You are also welcome to see my 180 sometime
Paul
Nice plan, I hope , The vfd lasts long term I dont see why it would not!!!!!!!!
I am trying to Visualize this wave actio and I had a few thoughts on how it might work. sooo...
I wanna know since 1 motor supplies the flow/wave...
Does it get pumped in all from 1 side and make a wave from one side to the other?
Or maybe the water rushes in everywhere and the tottal tank level rises but then pulls to the drain wich is on one side?
I would Love to see it some time, I can bring you a frag or two for your new tank...When you think it's in good enoughp shape for that !!! You are also welcome to see my 180 sometime
Paul
liveforphysics
New member
Hi guys!
To answer the question about the 5k budget that keeps comming up, I went through my paypal record list, and it was around $2900. Things I didn't buy with paypal only add to around $1,600 from my best rough estimate.
So, I guess I'm into it around $4,500. Sure felt like a harder hit to the wallet than that, but after finally working the numbers that seems about right.
As far as time goes... Let just say it was a hell of a lot faster to make the $4,500 at work than it was to design and build everything.
Special thanks to Susie (Tangee's) husband Keith who did the very nice finish cabnet work on the oak doors and trim on the stand. That was the only part of the project that I feared trying to do myself.
To answer some questions above, the stainless frame had a fat wide bead layed on each side of the angle iron where a glass face would contact. This was mainly done for to ensure soft pressure and support against the steel frame to try to minimize the chance of a stress rising point. The sealing action all comes from the inside seams, which I sealed like your typical large rimless tank.
When the waves pulse, you notice no drop in water level anywhere, it adds exactly what it takes. It's only for the closed loop, and it draws from such a huge long area that the localized velocitys are very low. My lawnmower sits on the inlet and an RTBA walked right over it with no suction issues. The inlet on my sump is setup the same way.
As far as what the pulse looks like, picture what a natural reef feels like. It's calm for a few seconds, then you feel the wave start to build, then it becomes the most turbulant reef I've ever seen for around 1-2seconds, then it dies away smoothly just like if a wave had passed over.
Just for kicks, I removed all 16 of the eductors nozzles to try to get a feel for how much of a difference they make.
WOW! It was really a day and night difference. I even OVER drove the pump to 70hz, and I simply could not get the flow I wanted. Thread the eductors back on, and the water turns right back into intensely powerful flow seeming to come from everywhere.
You reach your arm anywhere in the tank during the calm moment, it feels like a normal tank from the dart return pump with eductors. Seconds later, the wave hits and it blows your hand all around in the water.
DonW- Yes, I still run skimmerless. You should swing by sometime and check it out. The only thing that changed in my reefkeeping method is that I always run 2 macro-algae growing tanks now, and I light them with HPS to use less power than compact florecent for the level of growth I demand. I run 2 chaeto growing tanks because I did some experiments where I kept lowering the photo period on the fuge and roughly measureing bio-mass increase.
After seeing that leaving the lights on the fuge for 12hrs (with HPS, other lights may be different) made no measurable difference in growth rate than 6hrs a day, I realized that the algae "photo-saturates" (for lack of a better term) rather quickly, yet the night still has many hours before the display lights activate. With 2 algae grow tanks, one fuge "growth saturates", then gets cut off when the next fuge/sump tank begins to get blasted by an HPS lamp. This combo keeps the pH levels high all through the night, and really doesn't give much opertunity for pest algae to get to grow.
Melev- I appreciate the kind words. I appreciate how your site has helps so many people get more enjoyment from this hobby. Keep up the good work!
This picture is to rest your mind about the tank bottom support.
I'm not sure I've ever seen tank bottom support done more overkill. The 100+ shims were all carefully setup to share the load of the tank with as close as I could get to equal pressure all over.
BeanAnimal and BruiseAndy- You are both right. You can tell the drive to trigger an output signal when it reaches full rpm, and you can loop that output signal back into itself as the trigger to drop back to a different RPM. Since you can set the acceleration rates to be anything you like, with just the VFD alone you can have it make the pulses. This was how I first tried it. The problem was I wanted to be able to tinker with the intervals and not spend more than a couple of seconds to do it. I used a programable timer relay with a neato little digital countdown display and 4 dials to set the interval.
Also, as a semi-update, I now plugged this timer into a channel on the ReefKeeper2 that is programed to shut off for Xminutes at the touch of the "standby" button for feeding. The poor fish were having a hell of a time trying to catch food as it became blasted to all corners of the tank the moment the next wave pulse hit. Now I just touch the button, drop in the food and the poor little guys have a couple minutes of peace to gulp it down before the waves start blasting again.
In reguards to any of the folks who want to make a trip up to see it, I'm in Seatac area now rather than Tacoma. You are welcome anytime.
For the folks with frag offers, I would be greatful! The limited SPS corals that survived the move seem to be all doing well again now, but I would still like to give it another few weeks to reach bio-equilibrium before I accept any. It should be neat to see how growth patterns are changed from the style of flow.
*To any folks at reeffrontiers forum*
I logged in to check messages with the "Lurky" username that I created to use PM's with after they banned LiveForPhysics, and it was banned too! I had never made a post with it in over a year and they banned it
They even deleted the thread that Susie posted in the tank gallery area that showed my tank! Pretty funny stuff!
I'm sorry that I will no longer be able to read or respond to your PM's at RF. Please don't think I'm ignoring you.
Best Wishes,
-Luke
To answer the question about the 5k budget that keeps comming up, I went through my paypal record list, and it was around $2900. Things I didn't buy with paypal only add to around $1,600 from my best rough estimate.
So, I guess I'm into it around $4,500. Sure felt like a harder hit to the wallet than that, but after finally working the numbers that seems about right.
As far as time goes... Let just say it was a hell of a lot faster to make the $4,500 at work than it was to design and build everything.
Special thanks to Susie (Tangee's) husband Keith who did the very nice finish cabnet work on the oak doors and trim on the stand. That was the only part of the project that I feared trying to do myself.
To answer some questions above, the stainless frame had a fat wide bead layed on each side of the angle iron where a glass face would contact. This was mainly done for to ensure soft pressure and support against the steel frame to try to minimize the chance of a stress rising point. The sealing action all comes from the inside seams, which I sealed like your typical large rimless tank.
When the waves pulse, you notice no drop in water level anywhere, it adds exactly what it takes. It's only for the closed loop, and it draws from such a huge long area that the localized velocitys are very low. My lawnmower sits on the inlet and an RTBA walked right over it with no suction issues. The inlet on my sump is setup the same way.
As far as what the pulse looks like, picture what a natural reef feels like. It's calm for a few seconds, then you feel the wave start to build, then it becomes the most turbulant reef I've ever seen for around 1-2seconds, then it dies away smoothly just like if a wave had passed over.
Just for kicks, I removed all 16 of the eductors nozzles to try to get a feel for how much of a difference they make.
WOW! It was really a day and night difference. I even OVER drove the pump to 70hz, and I simply could not get the flow I wanted. Thread the eductors back on, and the water turns right back into intensely powerful flow seeming to come from everywhere.
You reach your arm anywhere in the tank during the calm moment, it feels like a normal tank from the dart return pump with eductors. Seconds later, the wave hits and it blows your hand all around in the water.
DonW- Yes, I still run skimmerless. You should swing by sometime and check it out. The only thing that changed in my reefkeeping method is that I always run 2 macro-algae growing tanks now, and I light them with HPS to use less power than compact florecent for the level of growth I demand. I run 2 chaeto growing tanks because I did some experiments where I kept lowering the photo period on the fuge and roughly measureing bio-mass increase.
After seeing that leaving the lights on the fuge for 12hrs (with HPS, other lights may be different) made no measurable difference in growth rate than 6hrs a day, I realized that the algae "photo-saturates" (for lack of a better term) rather quickly, yet the night still has many hours before the display lights activate. With 2 algae grow tanks, one fuge "growth saturates", then gets cut off when the next fuge/sump tank begins to get blasted by an HPS lamp. This combo keeps the pH levels high all through the night, and really doesn't give much opertunity for pest algae to get to grow.
Melev- I appreciate the kind words. I appreciate how your site has helps so many people get more enjoyment from this hobby. Keep up the good work!
This picture is to rest your mind about the tank bottom support.
I'm not sure I've ever seen tank bottom support done more overkill. The 100+ shims were all carefully setup to share the load of the tank with as close as I could get to equal pressure all over.
BeanAnimal and BruiseAndy- You are both right. You can tell the drive to trigger an output signal when it reaches full rpm, and you can loop that output signal back into itself as the trigger to drop back to a different RPM. Since you can set the acceleration rates to be anything you like, with just the VFD alone you can have it make the pulses. This was how I first tried it. The problem was I wanted to be able to tinker with the intervals and not spend more than a couple of seconds to do it. I used a programable timer relay with a neato little digital countdown display and 4 dials to set the interval.
Also, as a semi-update, I now plugged this timer into a channel on the ReefKeeper2 that is programed to shut off for Xminutes at the touch of the "standby" button for feeding. The poor fish were having a hell of a time trying to catch food as it became blasted to all corners of the tank the moment the next wave pulse hit. Now I just touch the button, drop in the food and the poor little guys have a couple minutes of peace to gulp it down before the waves start blasting again.
In reguards to any of the folks who want to make a trip up to see it, I'm in Seatac area now rather than Tacoma. You are welcome anytime.
For the folks with frag offers, I would be greatful! The limited SPS corals that survived the move seem to be all doing well again now, but I would still like to give it another few weeks to reach bio-equilibrium before I accept any. It should be neat to see how growth patterns are changed from the style of flow.
*To any folks at reeffrontiers forum*
I logged in to check messages with the "Lurky" username that I created to use PM's with after they banned LiveForPhysics, and it was banned too! I had never made a post with it in over a year and they banned it
They even deleted the thread that Susie posted in the tank gallery area that showed my tank! Pretty funny stuff!
I'm sorry that I will no longer be able to read or respond to your PM's at RF. Please don't think I'm ignoring you.
Best Wishes,
-Luke
Last edited:
Canarygirl
New member
thanks for posting your budget outcomes. I am even more impressed than I was before!
melev
Well-known member
Thank you for all the answers. Quite a few people are talking about this thread lately.
I like that you tested it without the eductors just to see what a difference they make. I've never used them but I know several people such as yourself that feel it is the right choice for their tank.
Good thread.
I like that you tested it without the eductors just to see what a difference they make. I've never used them but I know several people such as yourself that feel it is the right choice for their tank.
Good thread.
cannarella
New member
Nice toys. I want an IR camera. I guess I will still have to use my hand...
Then there is a posse roaming around out there with torches and pitch forks trying to silence you some times.
Then there is a posse roaming around out there with torches and pitch forks trying to silence you some times.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Why yes,
Some losers have even offered physical threats at the coming MACNA event here in Pittsburgh (not joking at all). If you can't win the debate, threaten the other party with physical violence
Bean
Some losers have even offered physical threats at the coming MACNA event here in Pittsburgh (not joking at all). If you can't win the debate, threaten the other party with physical violence
Bean
cannarella
New member
Some people are just to pig headed to listen to reason or experience.
Double True, cannarella
liveforphysics - you did an awesome build. The plumbing alone makes me light headed...you must have had to take plenty of breaks to clear your head! That PVC cement can make you light in the brainal area.
As soon as I have an extra $700 bones or so to spend on the mod to my Sequence, I'm gonna do it.
liveforphysics - you did an awesome build. The plumbing alone makes me light headed...you must have had to take plenty of breaks to clear your head! That PVC cement can make you light in the brainal area.
As soon as I have an extra $700 bones or so to spend on the mod to my Sequence, I'm gonna do it.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Just be aware that the smaller sequence pumps DO NOT use the same motor frame. That is, the wet end will have a different bolt pattern (much smaller).
liveforphysics
New member
Yes, I must admit, before I got a fan setup under the stand, the plumbing and I were both getting a little loopy. Ended up using two and a half cans of glue before I was finished. I'm guessing about half of a can is setup in my lungs
For those asking for updates, I haven't had time to even look at the tank. Cylinder heads to port, MS power gen engineering related BS, and a beautiful new lady to gobble up the freetime
I will update as soon as I get a moment. If you guys tell me what you want to see more info on, it would make updates easier.
Best Wishes,
-Luke
For those asking for updates, I haven't had time to even look at the tank. Cylinder heads to port, MS power gen engineering related BS, and a beautiful new lady to gobble up the freetime
I will update as soon as I get a moment. If you guys tell me what you want to see more info on, it would make updates easier.
Best Wishes,
-Luke
disbjohn
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10568535#post10568535 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by liveforphysics
Yes, I must admit, before I got a fan setup under the stand, the plumbing and I were both getting a little loopy. Ended up using two and a half cans of glue before I was finished. I'm guessing about half of a can is setup in my lungs
For those asking for updates, I haven't had time to even look at the tank. Cylinder heads to port, MS power gen engineering related BS, and a beautiful new lady to gobble up the freetime
I will update as soon as I get a moment. If you guys tell me what you want to see more info on, it would make updates easier.
Best Wishes,
-Luke
how about an update on the new lady?
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
I second...
Some updates on the new lady!
Wow, if it is that easy kick one to the curb and find another, then maybe I should start pushing the issue of what I want to do with the reef here.
Shall we venture down the path of replacing the AGA 75 with a plywood replica, fitted with a VFD and other niceties?
Some updates on the new lady!
Wow, if it is that easy kick one to the curb and find another, then maybe I should start pushing the issue of what I want to do with the reef here.
Shall we venture down the path of replacing the AGA 75 with a plywood replica, fitted with a VFD and other niceties?
dogstar74
Premium Member
I am curious, so the bottom of the tank is plywood with a custom polyurethane sheet coating?
Then is the glass afixed to the plywood bottom with regular silicone?
If so, how can you be sure the silicone sealant will bond with the Poly urethane coating and not leak in the future?
I thought the strength of silicone was that it could bond with the silica of the glass and almost become part of the glass, that is why it doesn't bond well to acrylic. I just would hate to see the bottom rim start to slowly leak after a couple weeks, months, years etc.
Then is the glass afixed to the plywood bottom with regular silicone?
If so, how can you be sure the silicone sealant will bond with the Poly urethane coating and not leak in the future?
I thought the strength of silicone was that it could bond with the silica of the glass and almost become part of the glass, that is why it doesn't bond well to acrylic. I just would hate to see the bottom rim start to slowly leak after a couple weeks, months, years etc.
BruiseAndy
New member
Fluid dynamics and thermo dynamics huh, you need to come play on my chillers some time. Just retro'd a dunham bush vert screw over to a tandem recip this week, fun stuff.
Porting heads on what engine, car?
Guessing one you had pic'd in the garage.
So are you a welding or mechanical engineer or neither?
Porting heads on what engine, car?
Guessing one you had pic'd in the garage.
So are you a welding or mechanical engineer or neither?
I hope your lady doesn't read these threads! If she does, Bean, you can come sleep on my sofa. 
