Do ALL fish need QT?

[SueAndHerZoo]

I am assuming the answer is "yes" but there's also some discrepancy and conflicting info on the web regarding certain species being "immune" to it.

I have an order of fish arriving Wednesday and the QT is clean and ready, but I'm wondering if some of the fish can go directly into the display tank.
Mandarin Dragonette?
Pearly Jawfish?
Starry Blenny?
Watchman Goby?

The reason I started researching this and decided to ask is because I sent a question to the fish vendor asking if separating the "watchman goby and pistol shrimp pair" during QT was going to cause them to "un-pair". They wrote back and said that I should not QT the watchman as the chances of them having ich is very, very small.

Your thoughts?
Sue

 

[f3honda4me]

I QT everything. However because of the mandarins dietary needs you may only be able to keep it in there a short time while feeding pods daily.

No fish is immune. I had a goby with ich once.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Ich is only one of many reasons to use a QT on every fish, every time. Do some research and I think you'll agree. IMO, although ich seems the most discussed, the prevention of velvet, brooklynella and several other acclimation problems are the big reasons to use a QT. I would never introduce any fish to my DTs without time in a QT. BTW, any knowledgeable vendor would know that ich is only a small part of why fish should be in a QT; I'd question anything they tell you from now on.

 

[b0bab0ey]

Ich is only one of many reasons to use a QT on every fish, every time. Do some research and I think you'll agree. IMO, although ich seems the most discussed, the prevention of velvet, brooklynella and several other acclimation problems are the big reasons to use a QT. I would never introduce any fish to my DTs without time in a QT. BTW, any knowledgeable vendor would know that ich is only a small part of why fish should be in a QT; I'd question anything they tell you from now on.

+1 Most gobies have thick slime coats which protect them from external parasites, but I don't think it does much to protect them from external worms.

Even still, anyone who thinks these so-called disease resistant fish can't get infected should read through this thread from several years ago:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1182259&highlight=mandarin+ich

 

[snorvich]

Mandarins are ich resistant but not ich immune. They are susceptible to oodinium and brook.

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

Thanks, guys.... it's the answer I figured I'd get but wanted to throw it out there anyway. This will be my first time purchasing from this particular online vendor and I'm only trying them because they came highly recommended by a few fellow reefers. They have a really good reputation and guarantee on their livestock so I am a little surprised at their answer, too, about not quaranting the goby.

I guess I'll put the pistol shrimp in the DT by himself and hope his watchman goby buddy finds him and recognizes him after a 4 week separation.
Sue

 

[snorvich]

I guess I'll put the pistol shrimp in the DT by himself and hope his watchman goby buddy finds him and recognizes him after a 4 week separation.
Sue

There will be no problem with the goby find the pistol shrimp. But I would be a bit leery of that vendor.

 

[Reefkeeper 18]

Honestly this is a personal opinion issue i think. if your willing to risk these fish getting diseases and spreading it to your tank, like i do, you dont qt. But if your very safe and meticulous then you qt

 

[MrTuskfish]

Honestly this is a personal opinion issue i think. if your willing to risk these fish getting diseases and spreading it to your tank, like i do, you dont qt. But if your very safe and meticulous then you qt

Using a QT on all new fish is " meticulous"? Tell that to the countless new posters on the disease forum who are facing the nightmare of tearing down a big tank, or lost all of their prized fish to a parasite; they will all admit they made the wrong choice. IMO, not always using a QT is the #1 reason our hobby has such a high turnover rate. BTW, there are many reasons to always use a QT other than disease prevention.The "personal opinion" to use a QT is shared by every published authority on in our hobby and every hobbyist I would ever ask for advice.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

The "ich-resistant" fish may bring parasites with them even if they are not infected themselves. Also, quarantine is a time for you to observe the fish and find out what it will eat, plus for the fish to adapt to aquarium life and eating prepared foods out of the water column.

 

[snorvich]

The "ich-resistant" fish may bring parasites with them even if they are not infected themselves. Also, quarantine is a time for you to observe the fish and find out what it will eat, plus for the fish to adapt to aquarium life and eating prepared foods out of the water column.

Actually, it is worse than that. Some fish, having fought off ich in the wild, have developed temporary immunity to it (lasts for about six months) but they can still carry it. That is the value, by the way, of doing a prophylactic tank transfer protocol on all fish. See my blog for details.

I totally agree that quarantine has benefits beyond just parasite prevention. Especially for sensitive fish.

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

QT is always such a controversial issue and I've been on both sides. I got away with not using a QT for 3 years and enjoyed healthy, thriving tanks. Then.... I got hit.... hard. Ich (or Velvet, not sure, but it happened fast so probably Velvet) took down almost all my fish and I was devastated, both at the big loss of life, but also at having been stupid enough to play Russian Roulette with their lives. And of course, then I was devastated to learn how much work it was going to be to try to eradicate the parasite/disease from my display tank.

The DT has been fallow for quite a while and the water parameters are great so I have a fish order arriving Wednesday. I was hoping that, according to the recommendation of the Seller, I would be able to at least put the watchman and shrimp into the DT immediately but apparently that was bad advice so all fish will go into the QT that is now copper-free, cleaned and cycled.

Thanks for the input.
Sue

 

[MrTuskfish]

QT is always such a controversial issue and I've been on both sides. I got away with not using a QT for 3 years and enjoyed healthy, thriving tanks. Then.... I got hit.... hard. Ich (or Velvet, not sure, but it happened fast so probably Velvet) took down almost all my fish and I was devastated, both at the big loss of life, but also at having been stupid enough to play Russian Roulette with their lives. And of course, then I was devastated to learn how much work it was going to be to try to eradicate the parasite/disease from my display tank.

The DT has been fallow for quite a while and the water parameters are great so I have a fish order arriving Wednesday. I was hoping that, according to the recommendation of the Seller, I would be able to at least put the watchman and shrimp into the DT immediately but apparently that was bad advice so all fish will go into the QT that is now copper-free, cleaned and cycled.

Thanks for the input.
Sue

I think many of us learned the hard way too. just one comment on your post: I don't think always using a QT is controversial at all. I just have heard any logical argument against their use. But there are a lot of hobbyists that are looking for any excuse not to use one. I understand the space and cost involved (the cost shouldn't exceed the cost of one moderately priced fish); but for long-term success in our hobby----find a way to use one.

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

I agree - "controversial" was probably the wrong choice of words.

I guess the only potentially valid argument against a QT is the stress of the fish (or perhaps several fish) from being in a too-small environment without the luxury of sand and rock to hide in and get comfortable. I know some people have lost fish in QT (myself included) but I would guess 99% of those cases were probably due to improper set up (i.e. not enough filtration, water changes, aeration, acclimation etc.)

I lost two beautiful fish in my QT tank (a blue hippo and a regal angel) and for a short period of time after that I swore off QT'ing new arrivals feeling that had I not put them in there they'd still be alive. The truth is if they died within the first 3 days of being in QT they probably would have died in the DT, too, and maybe taken others with them. But it was still a discouraging strike against QT when I was trying to do the "right thing" and lost two beautiful (and expensive) fish.

So no, it's not a controversial subject, but a somewhat debateable one depending on personal experience and luck.
Sue

 

[b0bab0ey]

Honestly this is a personal opinion issue i think. if your willing to risk these fish getting diseases and spreading it to your tank, like i do, you dont qt. But if your very safe and meticulous then you qt

I think anyone who rolls the dice and doesn't QT before putting fish in a reef tank is acting irresponsibly. Because you know it's only a matter of time before all hell breaks loose and you have 0 viable in-tank treatment options. At least people with FO setups can treat in-tank, although admittedly under less than ideal circumstances.

 

[MrTuskfish]

A Qt isn't a stressful place. I doubt if a fish knows, or cares, if his shelter is LR or a piece of PVC. A fish in a QT can learn to eat and acclimate without bullying, mayhem, pecking order, and all the other distractions of a DT. IMO, any fish that dies in a proper QT would have done the same in a DT....and carried problems with it. In our hobby, losing fish is simply a fact and I think a QT will certainly help minimize new fish losses as well as protecting the established fish in the DT. If I lose a fish, I sure prefer it to happen in a QT than one of my DTs. When a fish dies in a QT, its common to blame the QT experience; but newer fish always die more frequently than established fish. Any decent vendor recommends a QT and they guarantee the fish---you can bet they know where that fish belongs.

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

A Qt isn't a stressful place. I doubt if a fish knows, or cares, if his shelter is LR or a piece of PVC. A fish in a QT can learn to eat and acclimate without bullying, mayhem, pecking order, and all the other distractions of a DT. IMO, any fish that dies in a proper QT would have done the same in a DT....and carried problems with it. In our hobby, losing fish is simply a fact and I think a QT will certainly help minimize new fish losses as well as protecting the established fish in the DT. If I lose a fish, I sure prefer it to happen in a QT than one of my DTs. When a fish dies in a QT, its common to blame the QT experience; but newer fish always die more frequently than established fish. Any decent vendor recommends a QT and they guarantee the fish---you can bet they know where that fish belongs.

Very true and very well-said. I guess I was inflicting human emotions onto the livestock when, in actuality, the QT is more stressful on me than it is the fish!
Sue

 

[snorvich]

Very true and very well-said. I guess I was inflicting human emotions onto the livestock when, in actuality, the QT is more stressful on me than it is the fish!
Sue

Look at it as a vacation. Meals served. No hassles, Get up when you want. No stress whatsoever. Anthropomorphizing our animals is natural.

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

I just found the e-mail from "Customer Support" at the vendor I'm receiving my Wednesday livestock delivery from. My question to them was "should I QT the watchman goby and pistol shrimp together or should the shrimp go right into the DT and hope they find each other in 4 weeks?"

"Thanks for the question. There really isn't any reason to QT gobies, especially sand sifting gobies. They are not prone at all to pathogens and will actually do much better for you if they go directly into an environment where they can build a cave home quickly to feel comfortable. Not sure what other fish you are planning on but the goby and shrimp at least should be acclimated to the display.

Also, don't treat with cupramine or any other medication until you see a problem. Copper and other medications like antibiotics are actually harmful for fish and do have side effects. It is best to place the fish in a QT tank and then just observe them for a period of time until you are either satisfied they are over the stress of being handles and can be put into the display or you discover a problem that needs to be treated."

In looking at their website they strongly recommend QT'ing ALL PURCHASES, so I guess this was just the opinion of one of their employees.

By the way, I will QT ALL the fish.
Sue

 

[snorvich]

Drs. Foster and Smith recommends quarantining all fish. I do prefer the protocol in my blog as it does not use chemicals unless a problem is detected. Worth a read.