wabbitbugs
New member
Am kind of going through the same thing right now. 2 colonies getting wiped out while others are flourishing. No clue what is going on. Parameters all check out and other corals not showing any adverse signs.
Do zoas melted away for no reason at all?
- Thread starter thewire
- Start date
TropTrea
New member
I believe that is a reason for every polyp that dies. However very often we do not know what that particular reason is. Some polyps may be more subject to certain things than other are. Therefore one vqariety may thrive in Joes tank while another may seem imposssible. Then for Jack his conditions are slightly different and he has that variety that dies for Joe thriving but has issues with another variety.
In the oceans different zoos thrive in different locations. This is because the conditions for those varieties are better for them it those locations compared to the other varieties. In our small Oceans we try to combine corals that are never seen together in nature. We atribute some of the issues with chemical warfre between species. But what about this even withon species? What about difference in lighting needs, Or even difference in the chemicals that are in the rocks they grow on?
Then also consider our fraging processes. How often does are fraging stress the coral to its maximium. What about micro organisms that could be present and undetected for year in our tanks? We are constantly bring in new material from who knows where into our tanks. What can we be importing that we do not know?
I sometimes think the weakest link to my system is the fact that I have 5 tanks in one ater column. What ever I do in one tank could seriously effect the other 4 tanks. I see this ocassionaly with fish where one will die oin tank A and then three weeks later one will die in than D with simular indications. If this happens with fish can oit also happen with corals?
In the oceans different zoos thrive in different locations. This is because the conditions for those varieties are better for them it those locations compared to the other varieties. In our small Oceans we try to combine corals that are never seen together in nature. We atribute some of the issues with chemical warfre between species. But what about this even withon species? What about difference in lighting needs, Or even difference in the chemicals that are in the rocks they grow on?
Then also consider our fraging processes. How often does are fraging stress the coral to its maximium. What about micro organisms that could be present and undetected for year in our tanks? We are constantly bring in new material from who knows where into our tanks. What can we be importing that we do not know?
I sometimes think the weakest link to my system is the fact that I have 5 tanks in one ater column. What ever I do in one tank could seriously effect the other 4 tanks. I see this ocassionaly with fish where one will die oin tank A and then three weeks later one will die in than D with simular indications. If this happens with fish can oit also happen with corals?
In my personal experience it was the pods. I know that people say those are good, and I dont disagree, but in certain situations, like mine, where there was no natural predator to keep the population low, it was devastating. Ive had a colony of zoas that I got in october (1 month after Ive cycled the tank). At first the zoas were great and spreading out quickly, and then it slowed down, a LOT, and then even worse slowly started disappearing. Ive done a ton of research, tried many different things from water params, checking for pests, dips, changing water flow, moving it up and down in the water column. In the end I suspected it was the pods (tiny little clear white ones, not the big ones). There was a lot of conflicting information online but I suspected that was the culprit since Ive exhausted almost all other known possible issues. I bought a yellow wrasse and within a few days it took care of the pods, instantly I saw an improvement in my zoa's and paly's. In fact, the 12$ fish saved my frag of an $80 paly.
Now before all of you go saying that pods dont do it, here is the reasoning I propose. Without a natural predator, the pods population grows out of control, they inevitably run out of food bits and become opportunistic eaters and eat zoas. Also, an alternative option is that with just really high numbers, they irritate the zoa to death (although Im not as convinced by the second theory as some are ok and others are not)
I am almost willing to bet that thats what your problem might be (assuming that the zoa didnt die because it didnt survive the fragging process and you got it before the zoa healed)
I disagree with this. Although the rate of success is better in bigger colonies, and the growth rate is faster, buying one is not an invitation for failure. Ive purchased many (9) single polyp frags and each so far has grown at least a second head, and others even more. The important part is to go to a credible seller who makes sure that the frag has survived the fragging by keeping it under observation and let it start to spread to the plug before selling it. If that is the case, you will not have an issue with a single polyp coral. (I do have to say I got one frag from someone here who ended up fragging the paly for me the night before the trade, he gave me two heads and a little baby. A few days later the baby has melted away and one of the heads floated away from the glue. Luckily I managed to scoop the floater away and re-glue it back to the frag. Since then it began to encrust over the plug and it seems to be starting to bulge out and growing a new one)
121
Member
I've seen 'pods' eating zoas in my aquarium, but only ones that have been closed for some time. The only way corals can compete for space is from chemical warfare as they can't move. They're constantly releasing compounds into the water. Some must be like pheromones to signal neighbouring corals to release eggs or sperm and others could be tailor made compounds to kill other specific species. Theres no way of knowing and I bet pods take advantage of the situation when zoas are poisoned and closed up. The fight is exacerbated in a closed system. Not to mention the fact that we can't test for most of the trace elements. All zoas are different and some may rely on a certain element to thrive. Also theres no way of knowing if activated carbon removes all the poisons emitted from other corals. The list goes on.
TropTrea
New member
And how good is activated carbon to begin with. I remember seing a deminstration on how it blue dye was dropped into a tank and the corabon removed it. In a 10 gallon tank it took the first 6 drops of dye out of the water realy fast but after that it had very little effect. Simply hits its capacity to hold the chemical. When were talking something we cannot even measure how do we know that the carbon is doing anything any more. could it be starated and hour after we put it in our tanks? Or is it doing its job a month later? And what about it possibly taking out good things from our water?
TropTrea
New member
I just had an interesting observation of my own. I was considering getting some new fish in and decided to drop my salinity slowly to 1.021 untill I got the new fish aclimated. When I got it down to 1.022 I noticed several of my Zoos started looking realy sick. So I started adding salt to bring it up to 1.024 where I normaly run it. Once I got past 1.023 I saw an improvement already. I took it up to 1.025 and they are looking better than ever did before. Could I see even better results going to 1.026 or would that be pushing it on the other end of the spectrum?
Wow, to be very honest with you my friend, I think you've already pushed it way too far. Why? Did you do this today? Were you adding salt directly to your tank to raise the salinity? Me personally, I wouldn't do that. When reef salt is added to water, a chemical reaction occurs so to speak within the water, which is why it is always advisable to well aerate/mix/circulate for at least 24 hrs and checking before adding to your tank. Undissolved salt landing on a coral can be very harmful. I suspect, and I'm only guessing, that they are reacting to your stabilizing your salinity. I have seen reefers who tried rapidly rasing of their salinity this way, only to have a decline a day or two later. Just be careful bro, don't push your luck unless you supersaturate some make up water with aeration for a day, and slowly add it to your main with careful observation and checking. No offense ok.
Mucho Reef
Mucho Reef
TropTrea
New member
Actualy I have a system with several tanks in series. I add the salt to my tank which has my protein skimmer in it. That tank feeds into my refugium which is roughly 100 gallons. This then feeds into my sump which is 40 gallons. Then finaly it is pumped up into the main tank. From the main tank it is again gravety feed down into my frag tanks.
No I did not change it instantly from 1.025 to 1.021 or back up to 1.024 where it is sitting now. I did it is steps where every day I changed it by roughly 0.0005.
Whew, glad to hear that. It appears you are doing something right, so just ride the wave of enjoyment my friend. Two thumbs :thumbsup::thumbsup:
On another note, do you have any idea what region your polyps are from?
Mooch
On another note, do you have any idea what region your polyps are from?
Mooch
TropTrea
New member
No I realy wish that I idd Know though.
Newest variety are basiclu a green gray with the exception of a bright yellow dot at the mouth.
Second newest are Green fringes with alternating bright orange and brown rings going to the center.
Then my oldest one are a dark maroon friinge with a deep bright green in the center.
I'd try to put names on them but looking at different sites I have seen numerious names for these and then back checking on the names saw some simular and very different polyps with those names.
Trust me my friend, the names are not important at all. I've own hundreds of different zoas and palys and don't know the name of a single one. In my opinion, they are a waste of valuable time. Thanks for the reply BTW.
Mucho Reef
PoeticInjustice
Member
My tank for some reason, can't support zoas while my other corals are flourishing.
I've tried a number of colonies and they just melted after a few weeks.
That pod theory sounds very plausible for me as my system is crawling with it.
I've tried a number of colonies and they just melted after a few weeks.
That pod theory sounds very plausible for me as my system is crawling with it.
Wow, sorry to hear this. I don't know you, never met you, never seen your tank, but I'm telling you my friend, you can keep zoanthids. Your situation isn't rare, have seen it and discussed it right here and on many other sites for years. If polyps are dying in your system.......trust me, there's a reason. I do however commend you for stepping back and reassessing your situation instead of allowing polyps to perrish one after another. Through a series of Q & A, I can assure you, many of the fine reefers right here in this forum could have helped you diagnose the problem. I can personally give you dozens of reasons why your polyps failed. When you're ready, come back here and let someone help you as I am sure the issue could have been resolved.
This is a true story. Back in the late 90's, right here in my home state, a new reefer was having the same issue. No, I'm not saying you're a newbie either. This reefer had the same issue. We spoke everyday for 3 days straight. I ask him to check this and check that then get back with me. He too had massive repetitive polyp failure. By the third day we resolved the problem. It was right there all along. He had done everything right, except one very important thing. Though he purchased everything new, he skimped on checking his salinity. The one thing he didn't purchase new, was a Hydrometer. In fact, he didn't even buy one, he was using a 30 year old hydrometer. I'm exagerating, but that's how old this thing looked. I don't think the thing has ever been cleaned and there was a nick in the swing arm.
As a result, and using my calibrated hydrometer, I discovered his salinity was off the chart. The arm was so weighted with build up, he continued to up his salinity until his water was super saturated as I recall. He spent hundreds of dollars on his set up and relied on a very old means of checking his salinity and his polyps crashed over and over again. He too claimed he could never keep zoanthids. I haven't seen him in years, but the last time I did, his tank was thriving and loaded with healthy zoanthids and palythoas.
Yes my friend, you can keep zoanthids. When you're ready, stop back by, ok?
Good luck.
Mooch
TropTrea
New member
I have just reciently found out that the zoos are one of the corlas that seem picky on salinty. I always lowered my salinity to 1.021 when I got anything new in the tank. And zoos were always touch and go for me. The last year I had no additions and kept itt between 1.235 and 1.245 with my zoos doing great. When I slowly dropped it to 1.021 I noticed some of my new zoos were closing up. But when I upped it I noticed an improvement when it hit the 1.023 mark.
From Mucho Reefers comment they seem problematic when the Salinity is high as well. So now I'm asking what does everyone think the most ideal salinity level is for zoos?
From Mucho Reefers comment they seem problematic when the Salinity is high as well. So now I'm asking what does everyone think the most ideal salinity level is for zoos?
Hey TropTrea, I have an idea and it's purely your call if you want to pursue it. How about creating a new thread with the last sentence in the second paragraph above. I think it would stimulate some discussion and feedback with a title on the new thread relative to the question. More people would see it, thus causing more to click on the thread and reply to it. It's up to you man, just a thought, not a demand.:wave:
Mucho
Jeremy Blaze
Former Reef Addict
Thanks Jeremy, good to see you around again man. Stop back soon and good luck at the swap this weekend.
Mooch
Mooch
biecacka
Active member
Back to the top.
I have a small colony of agent orange zoas that've regrouping great. Spreading etc. in 2 days they were gone as was a few polyps on other side of the tank that were unknown species. Parameters were fine EXCPET- ammonia at .05-.1 and my alk ALk calcium are high as well. Calcium about 520 and alk about 15. I've been struggling to get my calcium reactor dialed in and wonder if this could be part of the problem. Everything else in the tank is doing fine. I've turned off the reactor until I can get some help dialing it in
Any input??
Corey
I have a small colony of agent orange zoas that've regrouping great. Spreading etc. in 2 days they were gone as was a few polyps on other side of the tank that were unknown species. Parameters were fine EXCPET- ammonia at .05-.1 and my alk ALk calcium are high as well. Calcium about 520 and alk about 15. I've been struggling to get my calcium reactor dialed in and wonder if this could be part of the problem. Everything else in the tank is doing fine. I've turned off the reactor until I can get some help dialing it in
Any input??
Corey
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