Does anyone own a Leafy Sea Dragon??

[imbuggin]

hmm

hmm

I have seen them at many public aquariums around the world. The question I have is why everyone thinks they need these huge tanks? ALL of the times I have seen them on display it was never a huge tank and a few of them were together? They move slow like seahorses and swim little. So why do you all think they need 300-500 gallon tanks. Non of the public aquariums seem to agree?

That being said they are wicked cool and I am glad they are protected. I am not recomending keeping them in small tanks. I just have never seen them in large tanks like people are claiming.

 

[Samala]

Never rely on your eyes when it comes to public aquarium display size. You often see only a fraction of the tank. In displays where aquascaping isnt placed as to create the sense of depth what may be a four foot deep (front to back) tank may only look one or two feet max. Some aquariums also use column style tanks where much of the equipment is placed behind the main wall in an effective sump. I particularly remember one four foot long tank that looked all of 75gallons but was in fact 400 gallons!

>Sarah

 

[imbuggin]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6365249#post6365249 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Samala
Never rely on your eyes when it comes to public aquarium display size. You often see only a fraction of the tank. In displays where aquascaping isnt placed as to create the sense of depth what may be a four foot deep (front to back) tank may only look one or two feet max. Some aquariums also use column style tanks where much of the equipment is placed behind the main wall in an effective sump. I particularly remember one four foot long tank that looked all of 75gallons but was in fact 400 gallons!

>Sarah

nope sorry not the case at all. In fact I inquired and saw the entire set-up at some places. (the chiller is the main part)Take the junky mall of America for example. they have a "shark reef" or aquarium in it. Although I will definately say it is not one of the better establishments I have seen (or even close). They have 2 or 3 in a cylinder stand alone tank. At most the tank is 200 gallons or so. Still it has the swimming room of a 30 gallon tank. This is just one example, I have seen them many many times in tanks no where near the sizes people are claiming to be needed.

My question still stands. Why they don't swim much and move slow. They require little current if any. So why in the world do they need 500 gallon tanks? They don't If the 400 gallons as you claim is behind the fish tank than the water is only there for volume and stability. Nothing to do with what the fish needs?

 

[verytricky]

Only the Australian govenrment has made them illegal, and their authority does not extend outside of Australia.

They are currently avalable from syngapore and hongkong, in the region of $2000 at this time, plus shipping costs for 3 month olds.

You can freely import them into the US, you have to follow standard USDW guidelines - there are no CITES or other restrictive rulings.

Expect landed cost to be IRO $2800 each for 4. ( four would fit a standard shipping container therefore only one package cost. )

If you seriously have both the tank and the chiller for them - they can make a nice display tank. You will need minimum 3 foot wide, 5 foot long and 3 foot high tank. Basically they are quite hardy and quite agressive feeders. They eat frozen, and train easier than most WC seahorses!

Issues specifically with light - Sudden changes in light shocks theml, and they die.

Issues specifically with temperature - heat kills them very quickly.

Issues with their snout. Hiting rocks, tank walls etc, especially when feeding. They tend to push snout out of the water, and the trap dries and cracks - dont know why, but it kills them.

 

[Samala]

Um.. I'm not claiming anything, I'm telling you what I've worked with and have seen at other institutions. And just mentioning what I have noticed in general across public aquaria.. judging size accurately is hard to do and that you dont always see the full system.

If you're going to go to the trouble to keep them, make their home the biggest most dramatic display you can afford to do.. which is exactly what often happens.

 

[MinuteJohn]

Here's an article of interest. I was under the impression they had never been bred in captivity but I guess I was ill-informed.

"In 2001 the Sea Dragons at the Aquarium of the Pacific bred and produced baby Sea Dragons for the first time in captivity."

After the marine biologists iron out the wrinkles in captive breeding some enterprising aquariusts will start breeding them for sale. I wouldn't be suprised if in 10 years there are a few people on this board with seadragons in their homes. Hopefully I will be one of them. Amazing creatures.

 

[verytricky]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6366073#post6366073 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MinuteJohn
I was under the impression they had never been bred in captivity but I guess I was ill-informed. [/B]

No - I think you got it right.

There are two species generally held, weedies and leafies. Weedies have been bred in captivity, Leafies not AFAIK.

 

[INNOVATOR]

CITES has identified their need for attention and have labeled them as Data Deficient for now until further research can be conducted. They are under export control from Australia; however, the assumed threat is once the South East Asian regions have depleted their stocks (medicinal purposes), new stock focus' will be directed to Australia.

Most public aquariums would prefer to have them in a reasonable sized tank because of their large adult size and mating habits. Obviously, taller displays are most important to prevent breaching the surface plus the advantage of better water parameter control i.e. stability. Of course, there is the public phenomenom factor. Who woudn't love to go see a huge P. eques display?

 

[Seahorsewisprer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6368418#post6368418 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by INNOVATOR
the assumed threat is once the South East Asian regions have depleted their stocks (medicinal purposes),

Geez! Why can't they just use Viagra like the rest of the planet?!

I still think it's only a matter of time 'till someone realizes the lucrative potential here! The advances in captive breeding techinigues, esp the increasing availability of highly nutritious zoo and phytoplankton cultures are very encouraging to those of us watching the CB market explode.

Maybe OR will try it when CB seahorses are in every LFS for $20 bucks! Hopefully, they will know the weird shipping requirements!

 

[Bluetangclan]

Actually my LFS has gotten them before special order after more than a few years of trying. I beleive he told me his were aqualcultured and there was a waiting list and a customer on the suppliers end backed out and one came open. Price tag for the little bad boy was something like $7000, not counting how much the chilled large volume tall tank setup he sold as well. This was about 5 years ago when he sold it. From what he told me, it is still doing fine. This is also the guy I am working with on finding some other hard to find Sygnathids from around the world.

 

[Bluetangclan]

double post

 

[btuck]

seadragons need larger tanks both because of their size and territoral behavior. Just because they don't move much doesn't mean they don't need it. They need space to be happy. I could live in a house the size of a cardboard box but I wouldn't be very happy in it.

Perhaps we have been given different information but I've always been told that they won't accept dead food. They only eat live. Their food must be able to grow in colder waters such as mysis. So not only will you need a chiller for your dragon but you will also need a seperate tank and chiller to grow your food. (Unless you want to constantly be buying live food.)

With all the difficulties it would take to raise one of these creatures I don't think it's worth even trying to keep them. But that's just my opinion.

 

[swims withthe fishes]

If you can't understand the reccomendations set for a leafy, then you should take a look at the care requirements for a standard readily available seahorse in captivity, and multiply it by 10,000 for this very rare and nearly unattainable, expensive creature...

i have a $3,000 setup for a $50 fish, what do you expect to spend to house a $7500 fish?

though the mall of america may do something, would you ask an employee at the mall for tank setup advice? not me.

 

[agilis]

Sure, I've got lots of leafy Sea Dragons, so many I use them as feeder fish for my beloved Mantis Shrimp.

All seriousness aside though, why is it that so many seahorse fans seem to have two digit IQs? Do they really think that seahorses are in some way profoundly different from other fishes? Some of these seahorse fans seem to have a bad case of Fantasy Fi****is. This includes including a couple who write for aquarium magazines. The use of terms like "hitching post", "mare", "mustang, or "colt", and the hippocampusization of what is nothing more than a highly specialized fish form that evolved in response to environmental cues, suggests a need for a hefty dose of Traditional Chinese Medicine in powdered form.

 

[Bluetangclan]

umm

umm

Can you say useless troll? if you dont have anything valuable to add, then shut the hell up and dont comment. This is a hobbyist board for the spread of useful information not a place for idiots to try and start arguements, Agilis.

 

[agilis]

wutangclan

wutangclan

Thank you for your thoughtful and instructive comments.

I am a follower of this hobby, and I thought my remarks might be useful, in some way. I'm not sure what you mean by"troll". Did you have the underthebridge kind in mind, or did you intend some high-tech internet meaning?

In any event, your courtesy does you great credit, and is undoubtedly matched by your aquaristic skill.

 

[Bluetangclan]

I still havent figured out whether you are serious or just "trolling" the board for an arguement. Appearently you have never had sygs enough to know they are kept very different from standard fish. Suggesting that they be turned into powder for those bastards in Asia for their hokey medicine on a seahorse board isnt exactly the most politically correct thing to do either.

 

[Swanwillow]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6452872#post6452872 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by agilis
Sure, I've got lots of leafy Sea Dragons, so many I use them as feeder fish for my beloved Mantis Shrimp.

All seriousness aside though, why is it that so many seahorse fans seem to have two digit IQs? Do they really think that seahorses are in some way profoundly different from other fishes? Some of these seahorse fans seem to have a bad case of Fantasy Fi****is. This includes including a couple who write for aquarium magazines. The use of terms like "hitching post", "mare", "mustang, or "colt", and the hippocampusization of what is nothing more than a highly specialized fish form that evolved in response to environmental cues, suggests a need for a hefty dose of Traditional Chinese Medicine in powdered form.

seahorses use hitching posts... its what they hitch to... they have flexable tails, and need to beable to wrap it around something in order to, well, do seahorse things. I have never heard a seahorse called a mare or a colt... mustang, yes, but thats because some places tacked that name onto them. you speak of mantis's... so you should know a few words used there that others may not-feeding sticks, stomatopods, peacocks, segment lines, photoreceptors...

did I mention that I had a mantis shrimp? to seahorse keepers, that whole line is mostly nonesense, whereas if I went to the stomatopod forum, and asked "how many photoreceptors are used at midnight during a full moon" it would erupt into a very intelligent discussion.

I do wish that people would stop using things at the rate that they do:IE powdered seahorses, ect. its disgusting!!! I can see the use, but not for what they use it as, or the rate they do. I come from an alternative religion that respects nature, but I would be ashamed to use an animal part in any ceremony that I do. I'll burn renewable resources, I'll eat jerky... and steak, hamburger, things like that. But nothing is ENDANGERED and everything that is used in my religion is plant based, and fully renewable. IF anything that I do use becomes hard to find, I will stop using it. I will not go out and buy holly if it somehow becomes nearly endangered.

 

[verytricky]

dead food

dead food

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6374932#post6374932 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by btuck
Perhaps we have been given different information but I've always been told that they won't accept dead food. They only eat live.

Robin James, who is in the UK showed me his collection of dragons, all of which eat frozen. They are agressive feeders of frozen foods.

In Minnneappolliss ( damn name! ) there is an aquarium where they converted them to frozen in 4 days! Try that with a seahorse!:mad2:

 

[agilis]

Looking for an argument? Are you a Monty Python fan. No, I''m not.

Keeping seahorses successfully has specific requirements, but what, I wonder, is a "standard" fish? Aren't there many kinds of fishes with very specialized needs that can only be met in species- dedicated aquariums? I never questioned that. In fact, my seahorse experience is fairly extensive. I've even raised a few from itty-bitty cute little colts. What a pain! Greenwater cultures and rotifers, plankton collecting, multiple rearing corrals, etc.

These days, those that have the bad luck to be born in one of my aquaria either get embedded in lucite or sent straight to China.