Does Fuge size really matter?

MeuserReef

MeuserReef

Welcome to the next level
Im building a 140 gallon system (120 display / 20 sump) and want to incorporate a refugium to allow for nitrate removal. Because my system is one that is fully contained within the confines of the stand/cabinet, Im quickly running out of room for all of the tank's life support systems.

How small of a fuge do you think I can get away with on a setup of this size? I have a spare 5.5 gallon that I was thinking of placing above the sump. THis would allow me to bleed off some of the return flow to feed the fuge and gravity to return the flow back into the sump.

Is a 5.5G Macro-filled Fuge large enough to really help clean ~140 gallons of water?
 
I think that should be fine I have a little section dedicated in my sump with live rock and chaeto and it seems to be fine removing nutrients
 
I have a 55 gallon sump with almost 2/3 of it dedicated to a fuge.If it was me I would try and make it larger.Are you planing on keeping your skimmer in there as well?
 
IMO, if the goal is growing macroalgae as a primary export method, the bigger the better, and then it may still not be enough. :D

My refugia are very brightly lit and have a surface area similar to the main display tanks. I do not consider them overkill.
 
something is better than nothing. if you can go bigger but if you cannot then it will remove nutrients but depending on your stocking and feeding not that much
 
Re: Does Fuge size really matter?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13435800#post13435800 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MeuserReef
Im building a 140 gallon system (120 display / 20 sump) and want to incorporate a refugium to allow for nitrate removal. Because my system is one that is fully contained within the confines of the stand/cabinet, Im quickly running out of room for all of the tank's life support systems.

I have a spare 5.5 gallon that I was thinking of placing above the sump. THis would allow me to bleed off some of the return flow to feed the fuge and gravity to return the flow back into the sump.
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First I think your sump will be too small. It should be capable of containing between 10 and 20 % of your display volume when the power is off and the water back siphons to the sump. If you run a Fuge above your sump you must include between 10 and 20 % of your fuge volume in your sump calculations.

You should have 14 to 28 gallons above your operating level to contain all the water when the power is off (not including the Fuge)

Is a 5.5G Macro-filled Fuge large enough to really help clean ~140 gallons of water?

How small of a fuge do you think I can get away with on a setup of this size?
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I have a 40 gallon fuge on my 150 and feel that it is not large enough to reduce my nitrates to an acceptable level.
 
Thanks everyone for the comments and guidance. The primary reason that Im leaning torward a 20 gallon sump is because of the space limitations that I have under the stand. My tank sits in our living room and therefore must have its equipment 100% contained within the stand (or otherwise hidden from view)

I do have room for a 55 gallon under the stand, however I will have to review the room needed by the other equipment. I think I can pull it off.

As far as the Macro being the primary method of nutrient export, Im not necessarily looking to put the macro algae in this role. Im planning on using a combo of agressive skimming, phosban, GAC, and macro to help keep NO3 and P04 in check.

With regards to the "siphon capacity" of the sump, Im not sure that I will see 24 gallons of water back-siphoning into the sump. On my current setup, I have a 30 gallon display with a 10 gallon sump. I have my siphon break positioned so as to only allow about 1-1.5 gallons to siphon. I understand that by increasing the surface area of the water, I will increase this back-siphon amount, but not to the point that 12-24 gallons siphons out (at least I hope :D )


PS... Greg, I cannot imagine how cool it must be to pilot an Apache! Aside from the F-22, the AH-64 is by far the most awesome piece of military might in our arsenal.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13454404#post13454404 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MeuserReef
Thanks everyone for the comments and guidance. The primary reason that Im leaning torward a 20 gallon sump is because of the space limitations that I have under the stand. My tank sits in our living room and therefore must have its equipment 100% contained within the stand (or otherwise hidden from view)

I do have room for a 55 gallon under the stand, however I will have to review the room needed by the other equipment. I think I can pull it off.

With regards to the "siphon capacity" of the sump, Im not sure that I will see 24 gallons of water back-siphoning into the sump. On my current setup, I have a 30 gallon display with a 10 gallon sump. I have my siphon break positioned so as to only allow about 1-1.5 gallons to siphon. I understand that by increasing the surface area of the water, I will increase this back-siphon amount, but not to the point that 12-24 gallons siphons out (at least I hope :D )


PS... Greg, I cannot imagine how cool it must be to pilot an Apache! Aside from the F-22, the AH-64 is by far the most awesome piece of military might in our arsenal.
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Assuming that the 120 is 48 X 24 with a 2 inch overflow you will need 10 gallons just from the surface of the tank, depending on the size of the overflow box, height of drains and amount of plumbing you could drain 2 or 4 gallons from there, not to mention the volume of water in your skimmer 3 or 4 gallons. (We haven't included a Fuge yet)

Lets just say that your going to need to hold 15 gallons of water over and above your normal operating level. Assuming that you have a 20 long (30 X 12 X 12 closer to 19 gal not 20) you will need 10 inches of tank above your normal operating level to contain the 15 gallons that back siphon. This only leaves you 2 to 3 inches of normal operating level and will result in your pump sucking air.

I think my estimates are fairly conservative and to be on the safe side the 55 would be a better choice. Besides you can silicone in a few partitions and have your fuge too and all your reactors will be contained in the sump.

The place for the water is in the system not on the floor. There is one sure way to upset the better half, and that's salt water on her new rug! :)

P.S. The Apache was a blast " Ugly but Hung"
helico3-1.gif
 
I have a 14X14" with 20" tall on a 140 gallon and another 20 gallon sump. I have a deep sand bed and chateo growing with countless rotifers and pods. I use a 70 watt double ended ushio bulb.

I have taken down fuge several different times and always see better results when it is up and running well. I never think it is too small as a sole refugium.

I do 10% weekly water changes which most people do not do so I may get away with more. I think a large refugium would be unnecessary for a lightly stocked 140 display tank. I just grow large colonies of SPS with as much automation as possible.

Panther fan in Texas? I'm in NC.
 
size of refugium

size of refugium

The amount and frequency of water changes is the key in my opinion. I have always done 15% weekly water changes along with a relatively small refugium on my 100 gallon tank. My nitrates are approaching 0 on the Salifert Test kit. There are too many variables for anyone to recommend an exact size refugium. The back siphoning can be controlled by drilling holes in the return line or the use of check valves.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13454821#post13454821 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by slow_leak
Panther fan in Texas? I'm in NC.
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Charlotte native.... what can I say? I've been a Panther fan since their first season :D I USED to be a Hornets fan too but George Shinn had to go a screw things up. Should have sold 51% to Michael Jordan when he had the chance!

As far as the fuge situation.... I have not been able to find a 55 gallon tank 'round here for cheap. I already own the 20L so I got to thinking,... perhaps I could run dual 20L tanks. One will serve as a sump for the skimmer and pump, the other will be a fuge. Im going to feed the fuge by diverting some of the return flow. I could easily drill the tanks so that the fuge flows into the return compartment on the sump. Both tanks would sit level with each other to eliminate the fuge back-siphoning into the sump.

This would give me a total volume of 40 gallons. Im still not sure if I like this idea or not though.
 
From a differant angle, I have a 145g BB and before I hooked up my fuge, had zero or next to zero NO3 (testing with Salifert) and undetectable PO4.

Where I'm going is fuges are nice, bigger is nicer, but nitrates can be dealt in other ways. Technically if I had placed a 1g fuge, I could have said it was keeping my nitrates in-check.
 
I really don't view a refugium as a method of controlling nitrates as I have a shallow sand bed and run trace nitrates with and without refugium. I have so many rotifers and copedods grazing on microalgae, which in turn feed fish and corals in trace amounts. I also can replace sand bed at any time without a major tank upset.
 
build one as big as possible. imho, the bigger the better... but even a small one is benificial. every bit helps! :thumbsup:
 
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