Does my False Perc have ICH/Brook?

[one4gatr]

Well I posted this in the Clown thread and didnt get any answers or really any suggestions so I thought I would post this here... here is the thread if anyone cares to look...

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1729846

And here is my question... Thanks guys!

I am all set to treat my False Perc for Ich or Brook but I am not totally sure he has it so I figured I would pick some brains before I dip him... The fish shows no visible white spots, no white haze, no rubbing or scratching, etc... but the fish DOES seem to be lethargic, hasnt eaten in 2 days (been in tank for about a month and was eating), SEEMS to be breathing ok though at times it KIND of looks like it might be labored. The only major issue I have had with my tank lately was some undisolved salt dropped into the tank when I did my WC. Other than that my levels are spot on... The tank has been up and running for a while now and all other animals are happy and healthy. We added 3 fish about a month ago (2 damsels & the perc)... I didnt not have a QT tank setup at the time (i do now!) and dropped them in the DT without any QT. We lost one of the damsels who showed some chalkiness before he died. So I suspect whatever did in the one damsel is possible hitting my false perc. The 2nd damsel is lively and eating well... no signs of any issues...

So should I start dipping both fishes to be sure? Does a false perc go on a fasting phase for any reason? He did just fan out a bed on the sand about a week before this behavior. Am I missing some tell tale sign? Any help would be appreciated!

 

[Gwynhidwy]

Was this a wild caught or tank bred specimen? How long ago did the damsel die? How long from when you saw symptoms in the damsel until death? By 'chalky' do you mean the color of the fish changed, or was there excess mucous on the fish? Did the fish appear as though his skin was sloughing off, even in patches?

For what its worth, as a general rule, brook kills very quickly in closed systems. I would not expect a fish with brook to last a month. It is possible, but I think it is pretty unlikely. If you decide to treat one fish, you must treat them all.

Any chance of a photo of the fish?

 

[Gwynhidwy]

Just read your other thread. I don't keep clownfish, so I'm not sure if they fast during spawning. Some marine fish do, but its usually out of necessity, like with bangaii cardinals, the males cannot eat because they carry the young in their mouths. You are observing the fish nesting, but without a mate I wouldn't think he/she would be attempting to lay any eggs, and many clowns do this 'digging' behavior without having a mate, having been paired, or ever laying any eggs.

 

[one4gatr]

Just read your other thread. I don't keep clownfish, so I'm not sure if they fast during spawning. Some marine fish do, but its usually out of necessity, like with bangaii cardinals, the males cannot eat because they carry the young in their mouths. You are observing the fish nesting, but without a mate I wouldn't think he/she would be attempting to lay any eggs, and many clowns do this 'digging' behavior without having a mate, having been paired, or ever laying any eggs.

Yeah as mentioned I have ZERO experience with SW fish but have fished FW and kept for that matter a LONG time... My call would be pre-post spawn but I really dont know... Good news is the my fish started eating this morning again... So I am breathing a "bit" easier... I am surprised no one on the clown thread responded with anything useful... Tank was VERY cloudy this AM but it looks like the NAS snails are all in the same mood! I guess if my fish survives then great but I refuse to expose any animal to unneeded treatment if I can avoid it....

Thanks Gwy!

 

[Gwynhidwy]

You are most welcome. It is a good sign the fish is eating again. If you're new to the hobby the best thing to do is go slow, don't add anything to your tank without research, and do as much reading as you can.

 

[1geo]

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Are you sure your fish have Ich or do they have Brooklynella? To tell them apart you have to take a tissue sample and examine it under a microscope. The treatment of choice for Ich is copper but copper will not cure Brook. For Brook you have to use 37% Formalin. Formalin will also cure Ich. So if you are treating for Ich and your fish are not getting better they may have Brook. To treat with Formalin you give your fish Formalin baths. Where you put 1 CC of 37% Formalin (Formaldehyde) in 1 gal of water and dip your fish for a minimum of 45 minutes up to 60 minutes. You do this once every other day after 5 dips your fish are rid of Ich and Brook. I also put Formalin in the QT tank. I put 1 CC to 10 gals of water every day during the period I give the baths. Formaldehyde evaporates out of the water within two hours and is not accumulative. It does deplete the oxygen in the water so you need vigorous aeration with air stones in the bath water. Do not use Formalin on fish that have open wounds, it will kill them. After 10 days of Formalin dips, once every other day they are cured of Brook and Ich. The tank the fish came out of has to be fallow, fishless, for at least 8 weeks. The eggs of Ich are in the bottom of your tank and can lay dormant for up to 8 weeks. When they hatch they have to find a host within hours or they will die. Brook's parasite divides and the new cell becomes a free swimmer looking for a host. The swimmer can persist up to four weeks without finding a host before it dies. So a eight week fishless tank can say it is free of Ich and Brook. IF ONE FISH IN YOUR TANK HAS A PARASITE ALL HAVE THE PARASITE EVEN IF THEY SHOW NO SYMPTOMS AND MUST BE TREATED. Don't go through this in the future, QT all new arrives for at least 4 weeks. One more thing, Formalin has a short shelf life so use fresh product and ONLY use 37% Formalin, 15% will do you no good. Remember, if you are treating your fish and they are still dying, you are not treating them for the right thing.

 

[one4gatr]

IF ONE FISH IN YOUR TANK HAS A PARASITE

See thats what I am not sure of... I had 1 damsel die off... all 3 fish were introduced at the same time... so did the 1st die from stress? I dont know... None of the fish ever showed the white spots, respiration issues, etc... The biggest issue with the Clown has been no eating and hosting/hovering in the same spot for days now... The other Damsel has been fine but I dont know the difference between what a flase perc does during a spawn versus not... Everything I have read on Ich or Brook really hasnt been shown by the fish.. So I have my hospital tank ready to go both ways but until I see a sign to be sure I dont want to treat if not needed. I will continue to observe and treat if things go south..

One question though... Can you treat BOTH fish in the same hospital tank or do they need to be in seperate tanks?

Thanks!

Mark

 

[1geo]

Both can go in the same QT tank.

 

[one4gatr]

Both can go in the same QT tank.

Thanks 1geo... have 2 tanks that I picked up this week (1 for qt & 1 for hospital) on standby... Thinking I will cure some rock in the QT while waiting for my future additions... Going to let this thing playout before I ever REMOTELY consider putting any new FISH in tank... I should be ok to add corals and verts though right?

Thanks again for all the help...

Mark

 

[1geo]

Yes but you will have to leave the tank fish-less for 8 full weeks. This is principly due to the eggs of the Ich parasite in the substrata of the tank.

 

[one4gatr]

Yes but you will have to leave the tank fish-less for 8 full weeks. This is principly due to the eggs of the Ich parasite in the substrata of the tank.

Yup knew that.... I think the kids enjoy the coral and verts more than the fish anyway... I really do appreciate all your help!