Dosing Nitrate to reduce Phosphate

I have the sprung iron and manganese. The ingredients are described as:

Ingredients: Reverse osmosis purified water, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, and chelating agents.

Would this be the form of iron that could make my bacteria happy?
 
I am thinking that some experimentation is needed with different forms of iron and bacteria. It might not be known yet the mechanism of action of Iron effecting bacterial populations. Is it direct or indirect effect. A direct and selective readout of bacterial population size might be helpful.
 
Here's a small update on my situation:
After getting an no3 reading by removing all my sand and making my po4 level even worse last week, I began vinegar dosing.. I may have pushed the recommends daily volume increase a bit, by 20% or so..
Anyways I am now back to 0 n and my p is even higher.. Around .25-.3.......
Corals still have nice polyp extension and colour- all sps.
I have gone out and purchased Dispophos. And I got my hands on calcium nitrate:
null_zps6e19d150.jpg


This is all I could find. I am told that sodium nitrate is a restricted substance. (Good for making bombs..) I have not tried an on line store yet, but up here in canada, I am not very hopeful of finding any.
So my question is this:
Would anybody use this stuff? From china, so I am scared..
And if you would use it, what might the concentration be?
If I can use it, I plan to slow down my ca reactor a little and compensate for alk and maybe mag if necessary..
I don't even know what the ratio of ca to n is in this mixture.. That's why I included the photo...
So now I'm stuck between two evils, the Dispophos or the sketchy calcium nitrate...
Any insight would be GREATLY appreciated!!!
Thanks!!
 
reefmutt said:
Here's a small update on my situation:
After getting an no3 reading by removing all my sand and making my po4 level even worse last week, I began vinegar dosing.. I may have pushed the recommends daily volume increase a bit, by 20% or so..
Anyways I am now back to 0 n and my p is even higher.. Around .25-.3.......
Corals still have nice polyp extension and colour- all sps.
I have gone out and purchased Dispophos. And I got my hands on calcium nitrate:
null_zps6e19d150.jpg


This is all I could find. I am told that sodium nitrate is a restricted substance. (Good for making bombs..) I have not tried an on line store yet, but up here in canada, I am not very hopeful of finding any.
So my question is this:
Would anybody use this stuff? From china, so I am scared..
And if you would use it, what might the concentration be?
If I can use it, I plan to slow down my ca reactor a little and compensate for alk and maybe mag if necessary..
I don't even know what the ratio of ca to n is in this mixture.. That's why I included the photo...
So now I'm stuck between two evils, the Dispophos or the sketchy calcium nitrate...
Any insight would be GREATLY appreciated!!!
Thanks!!
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be too terribly worried it being made in china. Most everything you but out of Wal-Mart and target and made in china nowadays but if it bothers you, just buy some from a source that you have more trust trough amazon .com. Atlantis Hydroponics is one source but there are others.

Dose a salifert sized spoonful and wait a day before counting on your NO3 test to reflect the new level. Work your way up to 1-2ppm over a weeks time. One salifert spoon every other day would work well of your 193g to slowly get a reading. Don't over shoot it. Once your PO4 numbers drop, your NO3 consumption will drop way back as well so your maintenance dose may be very low.

DispoPhos "Like the popular liquid phosphate controller Lanthanum Chloride, when DispoPhos is added to aquarium water it will quickly precipitate, creating Iron Phosphate (or potentially Iron Hydroxide)." Being iron based and specifically sold for aquarium use it sounds promising.

glassbox-design .com/2010/coral-shop-dispophos/
 
Chris, thanks for holding my hand through this..
A salifert sized spoonful.. Is that close to a teaspoon?
Will this type of addition significantly raise my ca?

The Dispophos says that it 'contains inorganic felll compounds' whatever that means.. I did one 5ml dose to my sump this morning.. Water goes through a skimmer and filter sock before going back to the tank. Water went very slightly cloudy for about 2 hours and then it cleared perfectly. No reaction from corals.. Left a slight off white haze on the glass that the snails are going through..
P went from .28 to .25 on a hanna ulr checker so, within the margin of error..
I just worry about the 'precipitation' of p that occurs. I can only assume that most of the precipitated p remains in the tank..
Anyways I will begin to dose the ca no3 and hold off on future Dispophos additions for now..
Just not sure what amount a 'salifert sized spoon' is..
Thanks again!
 
reefmutt said:
Chris, thanks for holding my hand through this..
A salifert sized spoonful.. Is that close to a teaspoon?
Will this type of addition significantly raise my ca?

The Dispophos says that it 'contains inorganic felll compounds' whatever that means.. I did one 5ml dose to my sump this morning.. Water goes through a skimmer and filter sock before going back to the tank. Water went very slightly cloudy for about 2 hours and then it cleared perfectly. No reaction from corals.. Left a slight off white haze on the glass that the snails are going through..
P went from .28 to .25 on a hanna ulr checker so, within the margin of error..
I just worry about the 'precipitation' of p that occurs. I can only assume that most of the precipitated p remains in the tank..
Anyways I will begin to dose the ca no3 and hold off on future Dispophos additions for now..
Just not sure what amount a 'salifert sized spoon' is..
Thanks again!
Click to expand...


A salifert spoons holds 0.05ml and is extremely small. 1/2tsp=2.50ml so you don't want to use a 1/2 tsp by any means. That is far too much! Take your time and get a proper way to measure out that small of an amount. You will be glad you did.

Try to avoid adding the liquid iron product that fast. Did the DispoPhos bring down your PO4 today? Next time, dose 5ML into a 2-5 gal container of R/O water, stir it up, then make a drip with 1/4" hose and let it slowly drip into your skimmer intake over the course of 48-168 hours. You might even want to experiment with adding 5ML to your 20+gal top off water container and let your system slowly get the dose over the course of a week that way. If this solution settles, put a circulation in your container and let it run to insure everything stays suspended well. Make sure your top off water is channeled in front of your skimmer intake and that your sock is downstream as you mentioned.

Using these ideas, you go slower but by the end of the week you will get the same end result without cloudying up your tank and other possible negative effects from doing too much too fast.

When testing new waters like this, always take whatever amount your think you need and cut it in half. Then work your way up over a week of two. You have better control that way and can make the right adjustments for your unique tank. Keep us posted.
 
Chris, once again thank you for you're excellent advice.
So the salifert spoon is similar to the Red Sea ca. Test spoon. I understand now.
I added a small pinch of the cano3 granules last night and will test this evening for no3.
I will hold off on using the Dispophos for now so as not to muddy the waters (so to speak) of this experiment.
Thanks again!
 
hi All, here's an update..
as of last night, my p was .o8 and n was 1ppm :)
i started adding the cano3 last thursday as a pinch with about 5 ml vinegar. the dosage increased daily over the last week to 3 pinches of cano3 twice daily and 50 ml vinegar twice daily..
having been informed, on this thread that there can be somewhat of an accumulative effect from dosing the n, i am going to start with a maintenance dose as of today which will be 3 heaping salifert spoonfuls and 50 ml vinegar. i will watch to see where the n and p go and adjust accordingly.
i also started some biopellets because id rather be using them instead of vinegar simply because of ease of use. i have only used about half the recommended amount so as not to completely strip no3.. if i get cyano issues, i will reconsider vinegar..
i will will watch n and p closely during the next several weeks to see how the transition from vinegar to biopellets goes.
as a point of interest, i also purchased a hanna iron checker and last night got a reading of 0.00. i'll also watch that and perhaps dose a small amount of iron in the future..

I'll update again in a week as i would like to get my p lower, still while maintaing the n where it is..

thanks again to everybody who has contributed to this amazingly informative thread!
 
reefmutt said:
hi All, here's an update..
as of last night, my p was .o8 and n was 1ppm :)
i started adding the cano3 last thursday as a pinch with about 5 ml vinegar. the dosage increased daily over the last week to 3 pinches of cano3 twice daily and 50 ml vinegar twice daily..
having been informed, on this thread that there can be somewhat of an accumulative effect from dosing the n, i am going to start with a maintenance dose as of today which will be 3 heaping salifert spoonfuls and 50 ml vinegar. i will watch to see where the n and p go and adjust accordingly.
i also started some biopellets because id rather be using them instead of vinegar simply because of ease of use. i have only used about half the recommended amount so as not to completely strip no3.. if i get cyano issues, i will reconsider vinegar..
i will will watch n and p closely during the next several weeks to see how the transition from vinegar to biopellets goes.
as a point of interest, i also purchased a hanna iron checker and last night got a reading of 0.00. i'll also watch that and perhaps dose a small amount of iron in the future..

I'll update again in a week as i would like to get my p lower, still while maintaing the n where it is..

thanks again to everybody who has contributed to this amazingly informative thread!
Click to expand...

You are on your way!
 
Today i get mi Sera iron test and test show 0 iron. I do wc every week for about 8%. I dose iron 5 ml and tested 1 hour later and it was 0.08. Target is not more than 0.15 using Glenn DSR calculator and Glenn recipe. Also i stop dosing NaNo3 because my nitrates are 2,5 and stable for last 7 days and im using GFO (pohsban) in reactor. I have Hanna Po4 checker but not trust because i get different results in 3 testings in the row. So im not sure how much is my Po4 atm. I hope to not overdose iron and with that lowering Po4 to 0.
 
reefmutt said:
hi All, here's an update..
as of last night, my p was .o8 and n was 1ppm :)
i started adding the cano3 last thursday as a pinch with about 5 ml vinegar. the dosage increased daily over the last week to 3 pinches of cano3 twice daily and 50 ml vinegar twice daily..
having been informed, on this thread that there can be somewhat of an accumulative effect from dosing the n, i am going to start with a maintenance dose as of today which will be 3 heaping salifert spoonfuls and 50 ml vinegar. i will watch to see where the n and p go and adjust accordingly.
i also started some biopellets because id rather be using them instead of vinegar simply because of ease of use. i have only used about half the recommended amount so as not to completely strip no3.. if i get cyano issues, i will reconsider vinegar..
i will will watch n and p closely during the next several weeks to see how the transition from vinegar to biopellets goes.
as a point of interest, i also purchased a hanna iron checker and last night got a reading of 0.00. i'll also watch that and perhaps dose a small amount of iron in the future..

I'll update again in a week as i would like to get my p lower, still while maintaing the n where it is..

thanks again to everybody who has contributed to this amazingly informative thread!
Click to expand...

congratulations !

nice to see how some idea's get picked up and working with others...
keep up the good works guys....

some big issues are slowly being solved with new insights...and the will to try.
 
I give up on Nitrate dosing after almost 6 months.

Green hair algae was getting to the point that I was getting worried that I could not recover. I did a major tank cleaning and the hair algae is still around on some rocks and some corals.

I might convert my biopellet reactor to a recirculating type or switch to vinegar and/or vodka.
If I did that I might try again.
I would like to keep NO3 at a low concentration for my clams and perhaps corals but not at the risk of a total algae invasion.

-Paul
 
pfoxgrover said:
I give up on Nitrate dosing after almost 6 months.

Green hair algae was getting to the point that I was getting worried that I could not recover. I did a major tank cleaning and the hair algae is still around on some rocks and some corals.

I might convert my biopellet reactor to a recirculating type or switch to vinegar and/or vodka.
If I did that I might try again.
I would like to keep NO3 at a low concentration for my clams and perhaps corals but not at the risk of a total algae invasion.

-Paul
Click to expand...

Algea can be controlled with the right cleaning crew an some manual efforts
Urchins, tangs like ctenocheatus tomini/strigosus, turbo snails.
Manual by 10% caustic soda solution into the algea's

Read this - cleaning crew
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21829243

And this - how to use caustic soda
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21829254

And this - put it to practice
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21829471
 
Last edited:
glennf said:
Algea can be controlled with the right cleaning crew an some manual efforts
Urchins, tangs like ctenocheatus tomini/strigosus, turbo snails.
Manual by 10% caustic soda solution into the algea's

Read this - cleaning crew
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21829243

And this - how to use caustic soda
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21829254

And this - put it to practice
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21829471
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice!
 
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