Dosing pumps or Reactors?

Reeferhead said:
This is getting ridiculous. I'm just stating facts, nothing more nothing less. Calcium reactors take aragonite (CaCO3) to produce Ca2+ and HCO3- in the ratios coral use to produce Aragonite. This is explained in the article you referenced.

As I already noted, and your referenced article notes, other biological and chemical influences come into play once the effluent is introduced into the tank. Unbalanced Ca, Alk, or Mg in the tank itself being a major player. The article you referenced never claims that calcium reactors in of themselves produce unbalanced levels of Ca and Alk as you have. That would contradict the entire scientific understanding of the chemistry involved.

As to my lack of ground to stand on, you don't know me but trust me when I say, I'm not concerned that my input on this subject is not valued in this forum.
Click to expand...


2.8 Dkh= 50ppm : 20ppm Ca

Thats not 1:1

therefore reactors do not add Carbonates and calcium in an equal ratio.


Come back to me when you have actually run a reactor, not just arm chair "running one".
 
Look out dogs n da house

smoothdog said:
That would be nice if your information was correct but it's not. I HAVE run reactors and have obver 20yrs experience in the hobby if you want to play that card. You quoted the article out of context and should go back and understand what you read. It simply states that you can't fix out of balance calc/alk by adjusting the reactor because (guess what?) it delivers a balanced load of them. i.e. if one is low and you increase the effluent rate they will both go up and then the other will be high. There are many different reasons that calc/alk can get out of balance (some are even mentioned at the bottom of the article) but running a calcium reactor is not one of them.

I feel sorry for the customers that you misinformed over those 8 years.
Click to expand...

I'm making me some popcorn now but I'm calling party foul. You didn't use any Periodic table:blown:
 
Please elaborate where I am wrong??????

It was said Cal reactors add calcium and carbonate at a 1:1 concentration ratio.

that is not true.

How am I wrong?
 
This is stupid. I don't even know what the argument is about. Use additives to get your Ca/Alk at the desired ratio and then set the reactor to maintain that. Keep testing and if one or the other is consumed at a different rate by your tank, use additives to adjust. If both are getting too high or dropping too low then you need to adjust your reactor.

Or not . . . who knows. I only know what I've read and how I maintain my tank. And it is working for me.

-Mike
 
acrohead500ppm said:
Please read,

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-05/sh/feature/

"Out of Balance

Another common problem when setting up a calcium reactor is getting a correct balance between calcium and alkalinity. A common complaint is as follows:

"I have an alkalinity of 3.5 mEq/L (10 dKH), but my calcium level is only 320ppm. I have tried adjusting the reactor, but cannot get the calcium level to rise without the alkalinity going too high."

A calcium reactor may be described as a 'balanced' calcium / alkalinity additive. Basically, this means that it adds calcium and alkalinity to the tank in the same ratio as is used by our corals during the process of calcification. Simply put, it is not possible to change the calcium level without the alkalinity being affected also in a defined manner.

As an example, for each 1 mEq/L alkalinity (2.8 dKH) the calcium reactor adds 20ppm calcium. If your tank starts out with 3 mEq/L alkalinity (8.4 dKH) and 320 ppm calcium, and you raise the alkalinity to 4 mEq (11.2 dKH) using the calcium reactor, then the calcium level will only increase to 340 ppm!

Natural seawater at 35 ppt salinity typically has around 2.5 mEq/L alkalinity (7 dKH) and a calcium level of 410 ppm, but I personally aim for around 3 mEq/L alkalinity (8.4 dKH) and 420 ppm calcium, and many others prefer even higher levels. Once you have decided on the levels, it is a useful idea to map where the calcium and alkalinity levels are (Bingman 1998) and then perform any corrections needed to get them back on target.

If the calcium level needs boosting, then I recommend using an additive such as calcium chloride. One gram of an anhydrous calcium chloride product (such as Turbo Calcium) will raise the calcium level by 360 ppm in 1 litre of water (95 ppm in 1 gallon of water).

If the alkalinity level needs boosting, then sodium bicarbonate can be used. One gram will raise the alkalinity by 12 mEq/L (34 dKH) in 1 litre of water (3.2 mEq/L (9 dKH) in 1 gallon of water).

In both cases, I recommend making changes slowly, rather than adding them all at once.

It is also worth noting that you may have difficulty achieving natural calcium and alkalinity levels if your salinity is less than natural seawater (35ppt) (Holmes-Farley 1998) or if you have a deficiency in magnesium (Bingman 1999, Holmes-Farley 2001). A solution to magnesium depletion, used by some aquarists, is to include a few teaspoons of pure dolomite in the calcium reactor where it can dissolve, adding magnesium to the tank (Bingman 1997).


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Thats nice you read the 101 on how calcium reactors work, but without having experience implementing them, you really don't have any ground to stand on here.

Also, you called me out because I stated they do not add calcium and carbonates in a balanced ,1:1 ratio.......The reason I said that is its because they don't.
Simple as that.

I think its also funny I mentioned earlier on ITT that calcium reactors do an awsome job of maintaining KH, but on high demand systems, they can fall short on calcium demands. I was then told by some on here " its must not be dialed in properly or not correctly sized then".

Nope, there is a reason the above article includes this common problem, and its solution???? dose CaCL.

I am not saying I am a scientist, or a know it all.

However, out of 17 years of experience with this hobby 8 of those years were spent working in it professionally, at one point I was maintaining 27 different reef aquariums. Reef aquariums, day in, day out.

The result? I have quite a bit of hands on experience with different techniques, see the difference in systems, pieces of equipment, problem solving etc etc.

Guess, what? sometimes it doesn't always work out how its supposed to in the book or article you just read and products don't always perform as the owner manual state.

Also,



Just thought I would share that little tid bit of hands on experience and problem solving for those running reactors.
Click to expand...

yeah_science_breaking_bad.gif


-Mike
 
acrohead500ppm said:
Please elaborate where I am wrong??????

It was said Cal reactors add calcium and carbonate at a 1:1 concentration ratio.

that is not true.

How am I wrong?
Click to expand...

Your not even arguing what you're saying you are. I did say 1 to 1 and I should have said balanced. It isn't 1 to 1 as they aren't used in a 1 to 1 ratio.


Calcium reactors work great as I've seen in person and in most rotm winners.
 
Pife said:
With a reactor alkalinity and calcium are added at a 1to 1 rate.
Click to expand...

:crazy1:

THAT is what I am arguing.


I don't disagree, I think calcium reactors are awesome, thing is I am stressing in addtion to the 1:1 claim is not correct is-
That even when even when levels are set, proper sized reactors/ dialed in sometimes can't keep up with calcium demand of SOME systems.
It was when I stated that, where people"reefer dude" jumped in to say thats impossible blah blah blah blah, calcium reactors are supposed to maintain rock solid levels of both, no if ands or buts.

Yes they are supposed to and often do a fine job on their own, however SOME systems consume the two at different rates and will need addtional supplementation for calcium due to the fact the ratio of reactor output is not 1:1.

I think this may have been a result of miscommunication
 
Last edited:
acrohead500ppm said:
2.8 Dkh= 50ppm : 20ppm Ca

Thats not 1:1

therefore reactors do not add Carbonates and calcium in an equal ratio.


Come back to me when you have actually run a reactor, not just arm chair "running one".
Click to expand...

Come back to me when you've taken a basic chemistry class and understand that PPM does equal molar equivalents! :wave:

From http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/

Calcium carbonate formation consumes its two components in an exact 1:1 ratio. In the units used by aquarists, this ratio corresponds to one meq/L (2.8 dKH; 50 ppm CaCO3 equivalents) for every 20 ppm of calcium. Not surprisingly, this is also the ratio of alkalinity to calcium that is supplied when calcium carbonate is dissolved, as in a CaCO3/CO2 reactor. Fortuitously for the aquarist, this is also the ratio supplied when calcium hydroxide is dissolved, as with the use of limewater (kalkwasser).
 
acrohead500ppm said:
It was when I stated that, where people"reefer dude" jumped in to say thats impossible blah blah blah blah, calcium reactors are supposed to maintain rock solid levels of both, no if ands or buts.
Click to expand...

Please don't misquote me. What I said was...

Reeferhead said:
I've never owed a Calcium Reactor. I've run dosing pumps and Randy's 3-part for over a decade and been very successful. That said, if I was to setup another SPS dominate system I would get a Calcium Reactor for two reasons.

1.) Guaranteed balanced Ca and Alk. Sorry Acrohead, you need may need a refresher class on stoichiometry

2.) No need to worry about rising salinity or Chloride imbalances

2 or 3-part is great for softy or even some mixed reefs but if your going to go heavy on the SPS nothing beats a calcium reactor IMO.
Click to expand...

and

Reeferhead said:
I'm simply stating that a calcium reactor does this...

CaCO3 + H+ → Ca2+ + HCO3-

I don't need to have experience with the equipment to state this fact. If you disagree you're simply wrong. There are all sorts of other chemical and biological processes in a reef aquarium that can effect measurable calcium and alkalinity levels.

Oh and be careful not to confuse bicarbonate (HCO3-) with carbonate (CO3--)
Click to expand...
 
Meant to write...

Come back to me when you've taken a basic chemistry class and understand that PPM does not equal molar equivalents!
 
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