drilled back of tank drain question

[ohclereefO2]

I drilled 2 1" drain holes in the back of my tank about 4" down from the top. I drilled at the top so if I ever had a leak it would not empty my tank. My 2 1" spa flex drains go to my basement to a 100g rubbermaid tub. Then I pump back up with a little giant 4-MDQX-SC via 1" spa flex to a tee and 2 3/4"line-loc outputs.

I tried the system out and I can easily overflow my tank. My 1" drains don't seem to drain too much and they are very very loud.

Did I screw up when drilling at the top of the tank? I was going to put some silencer on the 90 elbow inside my bulkheads, but the ones I built doesn't seem to flow too much.

Will I have to cut my pump output down to less than 1/2 to keep the drains flowing properly?

What do people do who have drilled the back of their tanks? Please share your experiences.

Thanks!
-darren

 

[itZme]

Most people would put a durso or stockman type standpipe on the drains to quiet them. I prefer using the "Herbie method" where you throttle back one of your drains so it is a complete siphon and the other one is a bit above your normal waterline as an emergency drain.

When using this type of drain you should be able to run the whole volume of that pump through ONE of your drains. ( the pump inlet is only 1" right? )
It also eliminates ALL bubbles and splashing/salt creep in the sump when the water exits below the surface and has no air in it.

I can get you a link to Herbie's thread later when I get to the desktop computer.

I will be implementing the same method on my 92g to the basement sump.

-- Kevin

 

[ohclereefO2]

Yes, please send me more info. That sounds like exactly what I need.

Yes, the pump is 1" in and 1" out. I would love to crank it up more than 1/2 throttle!

I even have an additional bulkhead in my tank that I plugged, so I could have 3 drains or this setup plus a CL if I wanted.

Send me whatever you have on that setup... Sounds promising


Thanks!
-darren

 

[MJAnderson]

Kevin turned me on to Herbie's Method. (it seems to wrong to have "turn me on" and "Kevin" in the same sentence...)

Works great on my system.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=344892

 

[itZme]

Yep, that's the thread. Michael, please refrain from being "turned on" to anything by me in the future. :sad2: I don't go for any of that Brokeback reefer thing :lol:

 

[cmador]

:thumbsup: Thanks for that link and I like that some of you guys have tried this and it works!!

 

[ohclereefO2]

so, do you use an open drain on the main drain? I could use some help coming up with this solution. Does the main drain actually create a siphon? Do you need a durso, or does an open drain work.


This is a picture from my test when I had open drains, and you can see my plumbing.

I don't have any "overflow" chamber. Do I need one?


Thanks in advance!
-darren

 

[manderx]

widen 1 of the holes for a 1.5" bulkhead. 1" horizontal bulkheads up top can only drain ~200-300gph each max. a single 1.5" is much safer than 2x1", since nothing short of a broadside tang can clog 1.5". snails get past teeth and maybe even gutterguard and will block 1", but won't matter in 1.5". use the other 2 holes you drilled for a closed loop.

definitely need a tee on the outside of the bulkhead where it drops down to let it vent. without a vent, it forms a siphon within the drainpipe and pulls water and then air through the elbow you have inside the tank, making the noise.

i don't like spaflex except where absolutely necessary. i think the ribs and the thick walls kill flow more than a few elbows do in many cases. but probably doesn't matter here. it's most likely the bulkheads are your bottleneck and not the pipe.

an overflow box would be nice. it would help keep things quiet (lets you suck water from below the surface so no air gets sucked in) and still surface skims.

check the first pics on the first page of my little red house to see how i do overflow boxes, then skim this thread- http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=982275
, especially the end where i post a pic of the outside plumbing i'm using on mine.

 

[itZme]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8736697#post8736697 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by manderx
definitely need a tee on the outside of the bulkhead where it drops down to let it vent.

This is conventional thinking and will work for you absolutely. If you would like to try the method I am talking about you would not need to redrill anything. It WILL flow AT LEAST 800-1200 gph through a 1" bulkhead. I will post a pic of what mine looks like but I would recommend using a gate valve instead of a ball valve to throttle back the main drain.

If you put a tee on the outside like suggested above the water will pull in air as it falls, the air mixes with the water and when it hits your sump it will bubble up the the surface and make lots of splashing and salt creep.

This pic is with my pumps flowing about 2000gph through two 1" bulkheads. If you need help let em know. I can either talk you through it or make arrangements to stop by sometime. I really feel this is the best way for anyone to utilize their drains but it is not as widely accepted as using a tee (durso) yet. If you look back a few years ago there weren't any durso's either so it is just a matter of enough people adopting this method and letting others know how great it works to bring it to the forefront of reefing.

I would highly recommend an overflow box though. It not only helps skim the crud off the water, it will also stop most of the fish/inverts from being sucked into the drain.

Well here are the pics... hope it helps.

Drains from tank:


Drains in sump (notice there is ZERO air in there at ~2000gph)

 

[manderx]

This pic is with my pumps flowing about 2000gph through two 1" bulkheads.

you also have several inches of head, with the room for over a foot within your overflow box to give you the pressure you need to push that much water through a horizontal bulkhead. the original poster does not. his bulkheads are way up top without much or any room for head.

 

[itZme]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8743204#post8743204 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by manderx
you also have several inches of head, with the room for over a foot within your overflow box to give you the pressure you need to push that much water through a horizontal bulkhead. the original poster does not. his bulkheads are way up top without much or any room for head.

True, there is more head pressure on the bulkhead but we are talking about a siphon here and I'm sure you are aware that as long as the end of the tube is completely submerged the water falling out of the end of the tube will pull the new water into the bulkhead, as opposed to the head pressure pushing new water into it, just as if you had a 1" hose siphoning water out.

I see no reason why he couldn't put a 90 downward, extend the tube a foot or more, then put 2 street 90's together to have the tube facing upwards and insert a strainer into the upturned 90. Wrap the whole thing with a few pcs of glass and some gutter guard for the top and you are set.

I am not trying to start an argument but the way you stated it was like the method you mentioned was the best/only way to do things. I feel that this method would give the OP what they are after and that is more flow and no air in the drains.

This method would work if he simply turned the 90 facing downward and stuck a strainer inside but I would be afraid of the suction around the fish/inverts. If one elbow faces down and the other is the emergency facing up there would be no problem flowing the required volume of water but IMO it would be risky as far as blockages.

manderx I hope you will give this a try someday, you may like it better than the current way you do your drains. Some people feel it is risky to limit a drain but I test them by shutting off the valve completely and let the emergency drain handle ALL the flow for a while to make sure there will be no problems.

:thumbsup:

 

[ohclereefO2]

ok, I tested the siphon with emergency drain method last night, and I'll mention the tank is still running this way right now!

I put a durso Tee with Steet elbow onto my up turned 90 inside my tank off the bulkhead. The plug on the Durso is not drilled. I had a hard time getting the siphon started, but once I got it going I was able the throttle down the drain and completely open up my pump.

I have the emergency drain about 1" from tank overflow point, so about 3/4 from the black tank lip.

I don't have any snails in the tank yet, just a hermit and some simple corals (and rock). I hope I can put a strainer on the durso plumbing pointing down and leave it that way. I am concerned with how the water level 1). gets to where it is 2). stays where it is 3). sometime changes? I'm not sure what the tank is doing, but I don't change my valves and the tank goes up a few millimeters and down a few, but basically stays the same.

I can vouch for this method being DEAD SILENT. My 100gal rubbermaid/ pump / skimmer is in the basement. My tank makes absolutely ZERO noise into my family room. I'm somewhat amazed.

I don't fully understand it yet, and I'd like help with the design/ improvements that I can make, but so far I'm very pleased that I don't have to scrap the work that I've done so far and I have better than expected results with plumbing / noise.

My one concern with how I'm set up now is what happens during power fail. I think since I have no real head pressure, I won't get a siphon started automatically? I can test this, but for now I'm happy just watching it run! Also, does evaporation change water level in the display now?

Thank you both for the input so far!


-darren

 

[manderx]

manderx I hope you will give this a try someday, you may like it better than the current way you do your drains

i have in a few of my tanks in the past (this isn't a new idea by any means, i had done some this way long before i ever heard of a 'durso'). and i help people put together tanks all the time, and when appropriate still help them do it that way. but i didn't feel it was appropriate for the original poster's tank. with the holes so close to the top, he's gonna have troubles eventually i think. if nothing else after a while, constantly adjusting the restriction to keep the tank water level in the sweetspot.