DSB Heresy

Mr Wilson,


I am setting up a 480 gallon tank. I am going to built a 72 x 30 x 24 three tier cryptic filter. I was wondering how deep you suggest I make the sandbed portion.

Sand on the bottom, Egg crate above for sponges etc, Flat layer of eggcrate on top of that for rubble live rock, another flat layer of eggcrate and then the top will be used for micro algae.


Thanks,

Ken
 
Re: Spunbonded Polypropylene Landscaping Fabric

Re: Spunbonded Polypropylene Landscaping Fabric

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10587644#post10587644 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pjf
How would you cover these pipes in the long term to prevent them from being clogged by the substrate?

I am considering spunbonded polypropylene landscaping fabric with continuous fibers. However, I’m sure that since ldrhawke started this thread in 2003, better materials and techniques have been implemented.
Click to expand...
IMO, the plenum should be at least as deep as the sandbed with a minimum sand depth of 3". In your scenario, the tubing you showed could sit directly on the glass and lengths of PVC could be used to lift the roof of the plenum to the appropriate height. Once that roof is in place (usually light-diffusing panel intended for flourescent ceiling fixtures), a layer or two or three of standard window screen material is the separator of choice. Most of these are woven fiberglass which is both flexible and reef-safe. Multiple layers will prevent the sandbed "sifting" into the plenum area.

For the pipe that rises out, one could use nylon zip-clamp to secure a "skirt" around that pipe and incorporate its trailing edges into the layers.

I would be leery of your proposed separator without a lot of research. Some landscaping fabrics are impregnated with weed killer. Others are made primarily of poly but have added materials for strength.

HTH and good luck!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10587746#post10587746 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LEPRECAUN
Mr Wilson,


I am setting up a 480 gallon tank. I am going to built a 72 x 30 x 24 three tier cryptic filter. I was wondering how deep you suggest I make the sandbed portion.

Sand on the bottom, Egg crate above for sponges etc, Flat layer of eggcrate on top of that for rubble live rock, another flat layer of eggcrate and then the top will be used for micro algae.


Thanks,

Ken
Click to expand...

If you have the room, go with 4" sand, 5" eggcrate panels, 2" rubble, 4" macro algae. This may not be possible if the sump is used to hold excess water while the pump is turned off.

With a DSB that big, the display tank sandbed isn't a primary source for denitrification. With this in mind, it isn't necessary to have a deep (over 3/4") substrate in the tank. I personally would just siphon the sand periodically if necessary, and use Valenciennea sps. gobies and starfish to keep detritus suspended. Proper circular flow and open rock work will aid in the collection of detritus. A 25 micron mechanical cartridge filter will also help remove detritus before it can accumulate in the sand.

In the spirit of the topic of this thread, you could use a 1" plenum in the display tank, with an influent and effluent line through the bottom of the tank. You could hook up a diatom filter to these ports and have it clean the plenum for an hour every couple of weeks. An open view of the bottom of the plenum, as you would have with a metal stand, will help you gauge when it needs servicing.

Diatom filters are rated at 1 micron, so the water does not need to be disposed of. A closed loop sediment removal system will not introduce hydrogen sulfide to the regions above the substrate. Any disruption to the denitrifying bacteria colony in the display tank will be insignificant, as the remote DSB in the sump is the primary site for denitrification.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10588522#post10588522 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mr.wilson
If you have the room, go with 4" sand, 5" eggcrate panels, 2" rubble, 4" macro algae. This may not be possible if the sump is used to hold excess water while the pump is turned off.

With a DSB that big, the display tank sandbed isn't a primary source for denitrification. With this in mind, it isn't necessary to have a deep (over 3/4") substrate in the tank. I personally would just siphon the sand periodically if necessary, and use Valenciennea sps. gobies and starfish to keep detritus suspended. Proper circular flow and open rock work will aid in the collection of detritus. A 25 micron mechanical cartridge filter will also help remove detritus before it can accumulate in the sand.

In the spirit of the topic of this thread, you could use a 1" plenum in the display tank, with an influent and effluent line through the bottom of the tank. You could hook up a diatom filter to these ports and have it clean the plenum for an hour every couple of weeks. An open view of the bottom of the plenum, as you would have with a metal stand, will help you gauge when it needs servicing.

Diatom filters are rated at 1 micron, so the water does not need to be disposed of. A closed loop sediment removal system will not introduce hydrogen sulfide to the regions above the substrate. Any disruption to the denitrifying bacteria colony in the display tank will be insignificant, as the remote DSB in the sump is the primary site for denitrification.
Click to expand...


Thanks for your help.


The water from my tank will over flow into a 70 gallon rubbermade container. The water will then flow from the 70 gal tank into a 100 gallon rubbermade container. ( some of the water will be picked up from the 70 gallon sump by the pump for a protein skimmer.

The 100 gallon rubbermade container will have a 6" DSB and eggcrate apprx 6" above the sandbed with live rock on top of the eggcrate.

Then the water will leave the 100 gallon rubbermade container will flow into the 72 x 30 x 24 acrylic cryptic filter. (got the idea from you mr Wilson) nothing in this huge tank except the cryptic filter.

Then the water will leave the Cryptic tank above and flow into another 72 x 30 x 24 sump. This sump will recieve the water from the cryptic tank as well as the water that was picked up by the protein skimmer pump. Also the water chiller and calcium reactor, etc. is located in this sump too. Then the water is returned to the tank.

The main display tank will only have about 1" of sand or less. I should add that the water from the mai ntank will go thru external overflows which contain blue fliter pads and filter floss under to keep the majority of the large stuff out of the sumps. The filter pads will be rinsed twice a week and the filter floss will be thrown out each time. This should prevent the filters from becoming nitrate producing filters.


Could you tell me what you think of the set up Mr Wilson?


Thanks,

Ken
 
Also Mr Wilson, Would it be ok to set the cryptic filter up like this?


5" DSB, 5" of eggcrate spaced 3" apart across the lenght of the sump, 4" of live rock rubble, and 6" for the micro algae at the top
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10588813#post10588813 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LEPRECAUN
Also Mr Wilson, Would it be ok to set the cryptic filter up like this?


5" DSB, 5" of eggcrate spaced 3" apart across the lenght of the sump, 4" of live rock rubble, and 6" for the micro algae at the top
Click to expand...

It's more efficient to segregate the zones of the filter. This way you can assure that the detritus produced by the refugium will not accumulate in the DSB.

I use the the all-in-one, multi-level systems only when I'm tight for space. The footprint of an aquarium is a hard space constraint to deal with. It sounds like you have a basement or adjacent room to put all the gear.

I prefer your system of having a large volume of water, with independent areas for filtration, where they can be easily accessed.

When your location is listed as TN, you don't need to put NASCAR in your list of interests. :)
 
Well it's going on 9 months now & everything seems to be doing great.

NO3 hovers at 2 ~ 5 ppm depending how heavy I feed the corals, & I believe that the plenum has been helpful with this. I let the plenum mature for several months before draining any water.

I now drain about 1 qt. a month during a WC. I have never had an algae problem other than some small diatom's at start up, & that lasted only about a week.

I am very pleased with this plenum & will be using another one when I start the next tank. The way things are growing it won't be long before that happens.

I want to thank all for their comments & suggestions in this forum & Bigdaddy for his help in getting me started.

Steve

:smokin:
 
Thanks for posting.
Have you tested the plenum waste to see what you are exporting? Is the waste colored? Does it smell?
 
Testing will tell how much of a given nasty is being exported. Is bad stuff getting concentrated at the bottom of the DSB? If so, is the concentration going up, which might indicate the need for more frequent or larger wastings? My guess is that fairly consistant readings would be ideal.

It's gonna be awhile before I can try this-thanks for any info.

Joe
 
I know this sounds stupid but this sounds just like those old undergravel filters we used to use on our freshwater tanks LOL.
can't we use something like thats? just turn on a MAXIJET powerhead thats attached to the uprite pipe and suck out a few litres of stinky undergravel water? same thing NO?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12135449#post12135449 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by john rochon
I know this sounds stupid but this sounds just like those old undergravel filters we used to use on our freshwater tanks LOL.
can't we use something like thats? just turn on a MAXIJET powerhead thats attached to the uprite pipe and suck out a few litres of stinky undergravel water? same thing NO?
Click to expand...


I belive the UG has a better chance of clogging, & may not sit high enough, But if you give it a try let us know !

This plenum is designed to drain by gravity.
I have a pvc T connector at the top of the display, & a ball valve on the drain line. I capped the top of the T piece & made it removable so I can fill the drain slightly, cap the T, & open the valve to drain the waste water, suction will do the rest. I then remove the cap & drain the line. Just a safety precaution, would not want the entire display to drain accidentally !!!!!!

Steve

:smokin:
 
Coming up on 1 year now, no problems, everything is thriving.
Never had an algae problem of any kind !. nitrates range between 3 ~ 5 ppm. I feed heavy 2x daily. I could probably lower them if I reduce the feeding's but coral's are getting huge. I drain about 1/2 a QT. of water during a monthly WC. I use an RO/DI unit, sump/ fudge, skimmer, solaris lighting, & a UV.
QO 4000 on a moded SQWD as a CL
QO 4000 on a manifold return system with moded SQWD.

Hope this helps.

Steve

:smokin:
 
Anyone using this have any update? Any details on exactly how they implemented it? Did you use a screen over the piping?
 
Egg crate over the pipe / plastic cable ties( non metal locks) to secure it, fiberglass screen over the egg crate ( over lap it & crazy Glue it to the pipe)
I used a #2 aragonite gravel first, covered with another screen, then a fine aragonite sand as the top layer, about 2"

After a year, no problems. I do have a brown Diatom outbreak on a small area of the sand bed lately, I'll try more flow to that area, & cut down on the feeding for a while to help remove it.

Steve

:smokin:
 
Anyone using this have any update? Any details on exactly how they implemented it? Did you use a screen over the piping?
 
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