DSB Heresy

salty joe said:
That is nice work. I'm considering using 1" non perforated pipe the length of the tank for a center with a lot of perforated 1/2" pipes attached to center pipe at right angles. The drain will come off the center pipe. The idea is to have as equal as possible negative pressure on each perforation.
Click to expand...

Salting Joe,

The idea of a 1" feeder line and smaller branch lines would hold perfectly true and the way to design it....if you were dealing with higher flow rates. With the rates of only a couple of gpm in the 1/2" line it isn't necessary to worry about and design for pressure drop in the line. All of the signifcant pressure drop is with the small holes in the piping. You don't need anythign more than 1/2" lines.........unless, you have a huge tank and plenum.:)
 
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ldrhawke said:
Don't use cotton...it will be eaten by the bacteria in a month. Use a synthentic construction drain cloth. It used in construction to hold back soil and allow water to drain through. It used it applications like making a railroad tie barrier and using it as a barrier before filling dirt behind it. It is sold in most big hardware stores. It comes in 4 ft. wide rolls, much bigger rolls than you need, but it isn't real expensive. I got mine in the Garden Dept at home depot.
Click to expand...

Thought as much, only problem is l can't seem to find and synthentic drain cloth with a felt like apperance.

The big local hardware chain only stocks the shiny drain cloths. Will this do??

PS thanks for your thoughts and the picture of the piping was really informative.

Linh
 
Is this the stuff, or do you think it might work if it's not?

161840_3.jpg


Easy Gardener
4 Ft. X 200 Ft. Commercial Weed Barrier
Model 2511MJP



Exceptionally strong, made of 100% polyester. Allows for flow of air and water to the soil, but blocks light so weeds can't grow. Able to withstand heavy traffic. For use in walkways, play areas, septic tank filters, drainage areas and retaining walls.

Internet/Catalog # 161840
Store SKU# 258313


(This is from Home Depot's webpage -- I woulda made a page link but they don't really let you link directly to individual items.)
 
yea, that's the stuff l can get in Australia as well.

ldrhawke:- any thoughts, l seem to remeber you saying this stuff might not suit....

Linh
 
I was thinking of using this really fine polyseter mesh material. Might give that a go if the window screen is working.

Linh
 
Papajin said:
Is this the stuff, or do you think it might work if it's not?

161840_3.jpg


Easy Gardener
4 Ft. X 200 Ft. Commercial Weed Barrier
Model 2511MJP



Exceptionally strong, made of 100% polyester. Allows for flow of air and water to the soil, but blocks light so weeds can't grow. Able to withstand heavy traffic. For use in walkways, play areas, septic tank filters, drainage areas and retaining walls.

Internet/Catalog # 161840
Store SKU# 258313


(This is from Home Depot's webpage -- I woulda made a page link but they don't really let you link directly to individual items.)
Click to expand...

That's it. They also have a coarser black fabric. Double wrap it around the piping. I cut a small hole to stick the riser through in the fabric and wrapped it like a package, with the flaps on the bottom.
 
:eek:

"Can't wait until DennisRB gets some water and coral in his tank. Something about living in the real world that teaches humility."

LOL, you are the king of humility right :rollface: I love the cheap shots. It really distinguishes your character :rolleyes:

FWIW, I won't be surprised if everything dies my tank setup and it turns out as a complete disaster in general. Doing research and questioning peoples methods is the best way to learn, and it puts me in a better position than the average Joe who knows nothing before starting a reef project. There is so much contradiction out there in this hobby its hard to know what is right and wrong. One person says this and the other says the opposite. Causing a bit of a stir is the only way to get answers sometimes. Anyway this thread is full of very conflicting views on what CPW does and how it does it.

A quick summery... people are saying CPW does not utilize biological filtration, DSBs don't denitrify much anyway, DSBs are pure evil in all circumstances, CPW is useless because it just wastes DSB treated water, CPW only slightly lengthens the life of a DSB, CPW just gets rid of collected detritus and the list goes on... How arrogant of me to question the system further. What a thing to do in a discussion forum Especially since I'm in the exact stage of the tank build where I could use the system.

eek1:

Anyway like the idea of CPW polishing. Can you make that pic bigger again as it is still hard to read?
 
DennisRB said:
:eek:

"Can't wait until DennisRB gets some water and coral in his tank. Something about living in the real world that teaches humility."

LOL, you are the king of humility right :rollface: I love the cheap shots. It really distinguishes your character :rolleyes:

FWIW, I won't be surprised if everything dies my tank setup and it turns out as a complete disaster in general. Doing research and questioning peoples methods is the best way to learn, and it puts me in a better position than the average Joe who knows nothing before starting a reef project. There is so much contradiction out there in this hobby its hard to know what is right and wrong. One person says this and the other says the opposite. Causing a bit of a stir is the only way to get answers sometimes. Anyway this thread is full of very conflicting views on what CPW does and how it does it.

A quick summery... people are saying CPW does not utilize biological filtration, DSBs don't denitrify much anyway, DSBs are pure evil in all circumstances, CPW is useless because it just wastes DSB treated water, CPW only slightly lengthens the life of a DSB, CPW just gets rid of collected detritus and the list goes on... How arrogant of me to question the system further. What a thing to do in a discussion forum Especially since I'm in the exact stage of the tank build where I could use the system.

eek1:

Anyway like the idea of CPW polishing. Can you make that pic bigger again as it is still hard to read?
Click to expand...

DennisRB,

First I'm happy and relieved that you like the CPW polishing. I'll try to post a larger picture. The problem is it won't RC doesn't accept larger files. I can send anyone interested a larger PDF file, if they drop me an email and address.

Second, I don't think it was a cheap shot. You keep asking questions that have been answered many times before on this thread. You ask a question and then you give your own answer. When someone tries to answer your question you often do not read or understand what has been said. Instead of asking for clarification, you then proceed to take off on a confrontational tangent telling the writer why he or she is wrong and you are right.

Point in case.....your quick summary. Each of these things have been addressed by myself and others. Several of them don't even make sense.

By the way...Who are, "What people are saying....", besides DennisRB. I don't remember anyone saying some of these things accept you.
 
DennisRB said:
FWIW, I won't be surprised if everything dies my tank setup and it turns out as a complete disaster in general.
Click to expand...
Hopefully you won't get a "tank of death" where nothing lives even when you try a second time.


DennisRB (edited by shoestring_reefer) said:
people are saying
CPW does not utilize biological filtration,
DSBs are pure evil in all circumstances,
CPW is useless because it just wastes DSB treated water,
CPW just gets rid of collected detritus
Click to expand...
I've read (and made) some posts saying those things.
CPW does not utilize biological filtration I don't know effective it is, but I'm not sure if it really matters. A skimmer doesn't do squat to biologically filter (unless you get a skimmer-bio filter combo) but people don't put down skimmers because of it. Besides, biological filtration isn't really necessary if you're just throwing the water away.
DSBs are pure evil in all circumstances Many people who feel that way for good reason; IMO they aren't worth it unless your animals need the habitat.
CPW is useless because it just wastes DSB treated water Well, if it's not a good biological filter, does it matter if it's being thrown away?
CPW just gets rid of collected detritus And that's bad because...

DennisRB(edited by shoestring_reefer) said:
people are saying
DSBs don't denitrify much anyway,
CPW only slightly lengthens the life of a DSB
Click to expand...
I haven't seen these things posted.
DSBs don't denitrify much anywayWhen I removed my DSB my nitrates rose from undetectable to detectable (about 0.5, I'll have my wife look at the test sometime) and have stayed there. I've got a very light bio-load, feed lightly, my skimmer is a Visi-Jet 100 that hasn't skimmed for a little while (or, should I say that I don't have a skimmer at all?), and overall I run a pretty clean tank. Good husbandry can help keep Nitrate down, but my DSB kept it even lower.

CPW only slightly lengthens the life of a DSB We can only guess. No body really knows if Idrhawk's method will prolong DSBs or by how long. Maby Idrhawk's tank will start growing hair algae tomorrow, or maby it never will. The thing is, without his method, it might have started growing hair algae two months ago, or two years from now, or never. If a lot of people try it, and on average they have more success than people who started with DSB (at the same time,with the same amount of research and guidance, yada yada) then we'll know.

ldrhawke said:
The problem is it won't RC doesn't accept larger files. I can send anyone interested a larger PDF file, if they drop me an email and address.
Click to expand...
Could you PDF the top portion, and include the lower part as text? Or just PDF the top? After all, the picture is worth 1000 words.
 
SORRY.....it didn't upload the file. I keep running into trying to maintain quality problems trying to reduce the jepg to less than 50K. I should have removed it.

Anyone that wants the drawing I will send a clear sharp pdf file if you email me a private note with your email address.
 
Since reading some of Idrhawkes work a few months ago, I decided to regularly drain some water from the plenum under the DSB in my refugium. (The main is BB).
This water always tests a small amount of Po4, even though none is detectable in the tank water.
Therefore, it is reasonable to believe that Idrhawkes method will achieve some benefit. I don't know if it is the whole answer though, because it will not remove all the detritus, but it will do some good, IMO, if someone must go DSB.
 
Ive started the construction of my CPW. Ive worked off your original plans of the grid for the substrate but have created my own piping system in the back, I believe.



Functioning
I will label each ball valve as follows:
Drain- D
Return- R
Middle- M

Implementing CPW drain
D-Open
R- Open
M- Closed

Flushing Pipes
D- Closed
R- Closed
M- Open

Normal Functioning
D- Closed
R- Open
M- Closed

Hopefully I can get some good diagrams up but for now enjoy the savage text images.

EDIT: text thing didnt work so I uploaded an MS paint mockup.

Left side is Return comign from pump
Right is goint to and from Drain
 
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