DSB Heresy

[thriceanangel]

Huh, I guess it must be a dialect thing because I have never heard of it called casings. I know that all annelids have castings, but I have only heard of worm casings used in the family Serpulidae. I have used castings on many occasions, and in fact in my area there is a new organization that is converting manure to castings and was featured on the History channel. I took a tour there and was amazed.

So you're saying that the castings of Serpulids may be adding nutrients to the tank that my out weigh their benefit which may or may not be adding heavy metals to the water?

 

[token]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10350399#post10350399 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thriceanangel
Huh, I guess it must be a dialect thing because I have never heard of it called casings. I know that all annelids have castings, but I have only heard of worm casings used in the family Serpulidae. I have used castings on many occasions, and in fact in my area there is a new organization that is converting manure to castings and was featured on the History channel. I took a tour there and was amazed.

So you're saying that the castings of Serpulids may be adding nutrients to the tank that my out weigh their benefit which may or may not be adding heavy metals to the water?

As to your first point, the use of "casing" v. "casting" is probably regional. I see packaging and it reads, "Casting", but I know few gardeners who actually pronounce the "t".

As to the second point, as I understand mr. wilson, he is speculating that aquatic annelids may be absorbing heavy metals and excreting them in that tube, much the same way that various filter-feeding mollusks have been shown capable of heavy metal uptake by tissue necropsy. This could lead to the harvesting of that tube as one more means of keeping our closed systems that much cleaner.

I suspect that we are a lot more careful with the addition of heavy metals to our aquaria than we are to the ocean itself.

 

[thriceanangel]

Well yeah but your from Texas! They all talk funny there :-D

 

[mr.wilson]

Google has casings and castings, with castings leading the hits. I guess it's regional.
We (Canada) say casings, but our worm fertilizer probably comes from Texas.

Token summed up my idea very well. Serpulid worm tubes/casings/castings would be harvested just as you would grow Xenia or macroalgae.

Dr. Ron Shimek has measured the amount of heavy metals in protein skimmer skimmate, xenia, and macro-algae. I don't know of any tests done on worm tubes, but I'm sure they're out there.

 

[thriceanangel]

My confusion lies in the fact that to me a casing is the "case" that surrounds a Serpulid worm. A casting is the waste produced by such a worm, semantics I know, but I am thoroughly confused by it. You said
"tubes/casings/castings would be harvested" to me you're talking about 2 1/2 different things.

Tubes- are only calcareous tubes (to me the case of serpulid worms- I'm in NY not far from CDN territory, I even own property north of Kingston Ont.)

Casings- which could be either tubes or...

Castings- the waste of EITHER oligochaetes or serpulids, or in fact ANY animal. Substitute manure here freely.

Which are you speaking of harvesting?

 

[token]

I think that I inadvertantly "harvest" these "cases" every time I muck about in my sump. The worms are so abundant, under and on the eggcrate, that I can't help knocking more than a few to what I presume is their untimely demise. With but one further step of deliberately removing the eggcrate from time to time and actually "harvesting" the tubes to the garbage disposal, I believe I might be accomplishing what mr. wilson suggests is possible. I might accomplish somewhat efficient removal of heavy metals if these casings might prove to isolate those same metals.

I think it might require airline tube smaller than I own to harvest those same worms' manure.

 

[JCTewks]

I'm confused, are we talking about the outer shell of the animal, or it's poop?? I always thought that "earthworm castings" was just a fancy PC way of saying worm poop.

 

[mr.maroonsalty]

Seems the use of featherdusters verges on tri-zonal; why harvest the "tubes," unless doing so signifacantly increases growth rates, are not the "elements" locked up in a very stable form, and wouldn't having a population of large breeding size polychaetes be more beneficial? I think Sabellidae may be an even better "exporter" as they are very good growers (reaching to teens of inches) and their soft tubes are more easy to collect?

 

[mr.wilson]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10355821#post10355821 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mr.maroonsalty
Seems the use of featherdusters verges on tri-zonal; why harvest the "tubes," unless doing so signifacantly increases growth rates, are not the "elements" locked up in a very stable form, and wouldn't having a population of large breeding size polychaetes be more beneficial? I think Sabellidae may be an even better "exporter" as they are very good growers (reaching to teens of inches) and their soft tubes are more easy to collect?

I actually meant soft tubed sabellid worms. Sorry for the confusion. I guess that's where I lost some people with the poop vs. tube question.

Hard worm tubes are calcium carbonate and mucopolysacchirides which are amino sugars. I agree there is no value in removing these hard tubes. The soft tubes on the other hand are composed of mostly organic matter (detritus, mucous, and the highly prized poop) with some calcium carbonate structure.

I'm just waiting for a time killer to read this post and look up the content of soft worm tubes while they are at work. Where are all those government workers when you need them? I guess they're all trolling through UTUBE. Maybe I can ask the question there?

 

[thriceanangel]

OK now I finally understands ya!

 

[mr.wilson]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10357781#post10357781 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thriceanangel
OK now I finally understands ya!

Yeah, my fault.

 

[Steve 926]

I think that I inadvertantly "harvest" these "cases" every time I muck about in my sump. The worms are so abundant, under and on the eggcrate, that I can't help knocking more than a few to what I presume is their untimely demise.

Hello Token.

What is the distance of the egg crate from the bottom of the sump.
I would like to try this, & elevate some LR I have in the sump, to get a better flow around it also.

Thanks fopr a reply

Steve 926

:smokin:

 

[token]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10359476#post10359476 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Steve 926
Hello Token.

What is the distance of the egg crate from the bottom of the sump.
I would like to try this, & elevate some LR I have in the sump, to get a better flow around it also.

Thanks fopr a reply

Steve 926

:smokin:

In my sump, I have some eggcrate about an inch above the surface of the DSB, supported by 4" PVC couplings on end (about 5" long) that penetrate the sand to another layer of eggcrate that separates the plenum from the sand bed. This visible layer covers the entire sand bed, glass to glass. On this elevated section, I have all my in-sump equipment. The flow is routed through an empty wet/dry filter, so as not to disturb the sand. Obviously, to do what I have done requires a fairly large sump and mine has the same footprint as my tank. As a result, I have to move just about everything to do anything, too.... but the results, ime, are well worth it.

 

[Steve 926]

Thanks for the reply Token
I just have a 15 gal sump for a 50 gal. display, split up into 3 sections. the last being a small fudge (5 gal) for some LR, cheato & copepods ? (hope that's right) But I like the idea of raising it for some extra flow below the LR. I do have a CPW plenum in the display, which is what this thread is originally about

Steven 926

:smokin:

 

[token]

I don't know about the flow but I do know that even that one inch is pretty darned full of little living critters that are just thriving. I think in my set up that what's under everyone gets little flow but being largely undisturbed and dimly lit helps them thrive. Sponges and worms have to be a good thing, right? I mean, better than some other critters I could have....

 

[JCTewks]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10360574#post10360574 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Steve 926
....I do have a CPW plenum in the display, which is what this thread is originally about

Steven 926

:smokin:

How long has your CPW been set up?, and how often and how much are you removing water from it?

 

[Steve 926]

Hi JCTewks

Is the tewks for rolling off 10k, or the parametric.

I just set it up a month ago, but Bigdaddy who is on this thread has had one up for about 3 yrs. If you go back in the thread, you will see some of his replys. I'm sure if you pm him he'll reply. A gret guy for sharing info !!

I will be posting my results in the future. At least, I will just have a plenum system, but draining some of the waste still sounds good !

Steve 926

:smokin:

 

[Toglco]

Forgive me for not reading through 30 pages worth of conversation to check if my question was already asked, and I apologize if the question seems naive, but couldn't you just add a creature or two that lives in the sand bed and is constantly stirring it up in its search for food or whatever?

 

[thriceanangel]

Creatures usually only stick to the upper levels of a DSB leaving the lower levels alone. That allows H2S to build up. This is relatively the same principal as a coil denitrator -the nitrate gets used up by bacteria on the way down. Just that a coild denitrator has to be long because there isn't enough surface area on a plastic coil to facilitate enough bacteria unless the coil is very long, and the water moves very slow. I hypothesize that you can do the same thing given the ample surface area of certain types of sand, by flowing water through a DSB slowly over the entire surface of the bottom, and through a plenum.

 

[pjf]

Spunbonded Polypropylene Landscaping Fabric

Spunbonded Polypropylene Landscaping Fabric

To implement ldrhawke’s “Controlled Plenum Wasting” (see first post), these circulating pipes will allow the siphoning of wastes that collect below the substrate:

They are made by Azoo and are retailed by Aquatic Eco-Systems (http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/4957).

How would you cover these pipes in the long term to prevent them from being clogged by the substrate?

I am considering spunbonded polypropylene landscaping fabric with continuous fibers. However, I’m sure that since ldrhawke started this thread in 2003, better materials and techniques have been implemented.