DSB in a bucket for nitrate control

Okay, I just finished reading almost all 66 pages. As a newbie here it was full of great info, and worth a bump back to the top for other newbies to read and take advantage of. Thanks to all of the "Reef Silverbacks" for all of their input, advice & help on this great thread. Now off to HD for my Homer bucket and some bulkheads!
 
i use a tupperware 30 gal trash can filled with sand bare bottom tank phos reactor no skimmer lps corals flourish simple line off main pump into can then drain of otherside back into sump dont need to be complicated it works
 
What is the best way to plumb a rdsb? I was thinking of using a 300gph pump from my fuge.
 
ok i just posted this question in the DIY forum but i think it belongs here so..

i just baught three sacks of sandtastic play sand from menards and am wondering if this is a good band. i dont believe it has any silica

also... is it ok to rinse it out with tap water or should i use ro/di water? i really dont feel like waiting til i have enough ro/di water to rinse out three bags of sand. :)
 
I just added a RDSB to my system. Really, it's just a garbage can in my sump, but it's not actually in my tank so I suppose it counts as the principles are all there.

I am using a Rubbermaid Brute 32 gallon garbage can. I have heard evidence that these have a fungicide injected into the plastic but Rubbermaid cannot verify this. I drilled a 2" uniseal into the uppermost portion of the garbage can right behind a handle and then put a 2" piece of PVC into it connected to a 90 elbow. This rests on the handle a bit and then drops down to the sump waterline. The garbage can itself is placed into my 150 gallon Rubbermaid Sump which also contains my chiller and protein skimmer. All of my other filters and reactors are also attached here.

The garbage can itself is 27" tall so it stands up above the water level in the sump. The garbage can is filled with 270 lbs of Carib-Sea Aragamax sugar sized oolitic sand. I did not rinse this sand (did the same thing when I put the sand bed into my display and was cloudy for weeks) but filled it and then drained off the top layer of water so removed much of the silt before putting it online - the rest is buried in the sand itself. The bed itself is about 17" deep from my measurements and has about 6-8" of water above it. The feed itself is from my protein skimmer which dumps into a filter bag. The skimmer is gravity fed through a Herbie overflow through 1" pipe and is dialed ever so slightly back to produce skimmate, so I'm guessing I'm getting about 750-800 gph of flow through the RDSB. The flow through this is not turbulent, but it's a very steady and gentle flow. My guess is that there won't be much of anything that gets into this RDSB because of the fact that it's coming from my skimmer.

My nitrates tested out at over 50ppm so they are very high. I have a very high fish load and had thought that the fact that my chaeto died off and other macros were not really thriving were indicative of the fact that I had low nitrates, boy was I wrong! I feed a lot because of the types of fish I have and they eat it all up, but they also produce a whole lot of waste so this is being used in conjunction with other methods, too.

NitrateReduction_01-16-101.jpg


FYI, I read almost the entire thread but gave up around when things started to get off track due to arguments about this or that or off topic information. I also don't believe there's ever information provided here other than the suggestion to go bigger about how much sand to actually use. Since I have about 650 gallons+ I opted for a 32 gallon garbage can and a 17" deep bed. Don't know how this will work or if it will work at all, but here's to trying.
 
Does anyone have a good rule of thumb for square footage of sand area per gallons of water. I was thinking about running a 29 gallon tank as a RDSB. Paint the outside of the tank with krylon fusion paint to keep light out and glue a glass baffle in the center of the tank that way I can suction half the sand out and replace it with new every year to 18 months, without disturbing the entire sand bed. For the time being it would be on a 120 and would be 13-15 inches deep. That would give me 2.5 sq ft of surface area and 3.1 cubic feet of sand. I plan on using Caribsea sugar sized sand.

Will this be enough surface area to kick the nitrates on a heavily stocked 120 gallon? Any opinions or comments are welcome!
 
kermit_criminal said:
ok i just posted this question in the DIY forum but i think it belongs here so..

i just baught three sacks of sandtastic play sand from menards and am wondering if this is a good band. i dont believe it has any silica

also... is it ok to rinse it out with tap water or should i use ro/di water? i really dont feel like waiting til i have enough ro/di water to rinse out three bags of sand. :)
Click to expand...

Sandtastik brand white play sand says it contains no silica, but that doesn't mean it's reef safe. I would rethink that, sorry. I would buy a big cheap bag of aragonite from petsmart if nothing else. Or online.

I'm by no means an expert on sand but if it's not calcium carbonate based... it could pose problems to your tank or introduce unwanted chemicals.
 
using live sand for RDSB

using live sand for RDSB

Does anyone see any issues with using live sand for a rdsb? The only thing living in the sand are micro snails tht I can see. The only reason I ask as im sure some of these micro snails are at the bottom of the bucket in what is now an oxygen free zone, will they die there and cause some type of problem?
 
Ok, I have some questions I was hoping someone could answer:

How long does it take for a DSB to work?

How much flow would I need for a 5g bucket.

Can I use Southdown Silica sand?

Has anyone seen any results that they can document?

How deep does the sand need to be?

Can I also throw in some snails and hermits to eat up any detritus?














JUST KIDDING!!

I couldnt beleive how many times these same questions were asked. It was over and over and over..... Take the time to read through this thread. All questiosn have been answered.
 
wowwee what a thread - I read it all 6 months ago and have finally gotten around to building my sump, so I have some questions that may have already been answered in the mean time :P

so first... does it really... ha, no, just kidding with that one ::rolls eyes::

Actually I was thinking of installing a tap to the bottom of the container so that I can periodically drain nasties out, extending (indefinately perhaps) the life of the sand in the bin. Thoughts anyone?

Also, the design of my sump necessitates the pump to be in the same container as the sand - 5800 litres per hour - so I'm thinking the way to go is a micro filter around the inlet, and a padding on top of the sand, to prevent sand going through the pump. Problem solved?

Also, this is for a fresh water tank - some of the thread I did manage to re-read relates to phosphates turning the sand into rock. Will this occur in fresh water? I'm known to use a pinch of salt per 15 litres.

That's about it, all my questions were answered way back when ;) Correct me if I need correction but...

1) My DSB will be 10-11 inches deep
2) I will prefilter, and the flow will be fast, to prevent a nutrient sink
3) I will be using fine grain "Sydney Sand" which should be superior to Oolitic sand, given it has greater surface area.
4) The sand will need changing every 12-18 months - preferrably done in sections over time, so as not to reset the system.
5) I should still do water changes to replace lost elements.

regards,
Richard
 
An update.... I have had a Remote DSB on my 92 display tank and my 700+ fish clownfish growout system. I have not seen any noticiable drop in with them in. I am going on 3 months use.
 
John I did this in conjunction with a refugium and my nitrates are still the same. they are only 20-30 which is more than respectable but they haven't reduced to zero. I also have a very large fish load. 17 fish in a 180. My fuge and dsb have been up for 5 months.
 
I would recommend checking out this site:
http://www.saltcorner.com

Bob Goemans has done extensive research on substrate/DSB/Plenums. The articles are a bit technical, but you can get the point. DSB's, either in tank or remote, rely too much on the fuana within. It is a huge variable that is difficult, if not impossible, to precisely calculate. If using a remote sand bed for denitrification, you might be better off installing a plenum underneath the sand bed in the bucket. Bacterial accumulation in the beds has been extremely well documented and is consistant. With a plenum, the nitrification/denitrification process is dependant on two concretes; bacteria and molecular charges. The overall charge of a water column is positive, with negative molecules collecting at the surface and at the substrate. By encorporating a plenum, a RDSB would generate acute flows based on these charges and equilibrium. This small flow keeps sand bed anoxic, not anaerobic. Bob has shown through his research that denitrifying bacteria are most prevalant in these anoxic zones. The bacteria in anaerobic zones have been shown to not only remove less nitrate, but to actually introduce ammonia back into the water column. Thus a RDSB with a huge anaerobic zone would show no decrease in nitrate unless the anoxic portion was more efficient(larger) than the anaerobic portion.

DSB have been refered to as nutrient "sinks" often. Once negatively charged molecules are drawn into the lower partions of a sandbed, they will not diffuse unless acted on mechanically(flow). Thus the binding to aragonite. If a positively charged body of water is placed below the sandbed(plenum), it is easier for the entire water column to diffuse and strive for equilibrium. The Monaco Aquarium still uses remote plenum systems that have been in operation for 10+ years.
 
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