EB8 vs EB832?

[sleepydoc]

So I'm trying to figure out the differences between the old Apex EB8 and the new EB832 but I can't find a specific list of specs as Apex seems to be slow to update their web site with information/manuals on the new controller. From what I can tell:

EB8

• 6 - 5A triac/SSR outlets, 2 - 10A relay outlets
• "active electrical current monitoring"

EB832

• 8 - 10A(?) relay outlets
• Power monitoring
• Built in 24V 1Link & accessory outlets

What is the difference between the current monitoring in the EB8 and the power monitoring in the 832? Without getting into details, they appear essentially the same thing. Is it just that the 832 separates out the current/power draw for each individual outlet?

Edit: Also, ignoring DC ports, probe ports, construction details, etc, the nominal features/functions of the EB832 and Cerebra power bar appear to be the same. Are there any differences that people are aware of?

 

[Breadman03]

The 832 is all relay switches, which are more reliable with low-wattage devices, and monitors current to each outlet individually.

The EB8 has 6 triac outlets and 2 relays, and monitors total power bar current only.

I think that the 832 would be quite useful in today's reef world where most equipment is controlled with signals instead of on/off, with the exception of small pumps and dosers. The 832 provides an environment where such small pumps can be reliably controlled.

 

[AZRippster]

The 832 is all relay switches, which are more reliable with low-wattage devices, and monitors current to each outlet individually.

The EB8 has 6 triac outlets and 2 relays, and monitors total power bar current only.

I think that the 832 would be quite useful in today's reef world where most equipment is controlled with signals instead of on/off, with the exception of small pumps and dosers. The 832 provides an environment where such small pumps can be reliably controlled.

I agree, however keep in mind that relay switches are mechanical and will fail far soon than a triac. A blend is nice but if you have several low-amp draw devices that will not trip a triac, the 832 would be the way to go. In my setup I have 4 EB8 and 1 EB4 essentially giving me 12 relay switches along with the triacs which most of my devices function fine with.

 

[sleepydoc]

Anyone know about the differences in power monitoring?

 

[ClownBubbaJoe]

I agree, however keep in mind that relay switches are mechanical and will fail far soon than a triac. A blend is nice but if you have several low-amp draw devices that will not trip a triac, the 832 would be the way to go. In my setup I have 4 EB8 and 1 EB4 essentially giving me 12 relay switches along with the triacs which most of my devices function fine with.

So if you were to buy a new one, which would you buy ?

Reason I'm asking, is I'm looking to buy a good used Apex Classic/Gold and all come with the EB8, and some people are selling their EB8, which I imagine their wanting the new 832. Electrical & electronics scare me as I know nothing,...about them. Give me and car to restore, build a race car or engine, and I'm happy !

 

[AZRippster]

Anyone know about the differences in power monitoring?

I think Breadman03 hit this. Regardless, the EB8 (original energy bar) will allow monitoring of the "entire" output of the energy bar. In comparison, the new EB832 will allow monitoring of each outlet.

Keep in mind, and although monitoring of each outlet is cool and potentially very helpful at times, even though the new EB832 allows for 10A per outlet, you cannot exceed the bar's overall amperage handling just as you cannot exceed your home's outlet handling on that line/breaker. This will likely be either 15A (most common) or possibly 20A.

 

[ClownBubbaJoe]

"It also has two 24 volt accessory outlets, for both powering and controlling other Neptune Systems devices such as the DOS doser, eliminating the need for both an Aquabus and power cables. This accessory port will also work with forthcoming accessories including solenoids for Auto top off, and a huge number of other applications".

Is the 832 mainly, to set up all their products and not other brands ?
What is the cost difference ?

 

[AZRippster]

So if you were to buy a new one, which would you buy ?

Reason I'm asking, is I'm looking to buy a good used Apex Classic/Gold and all come with the EB8, and some people are selling their EB8, which I imagine their wanting the new 832. Electrical & electronics scare me as I know nothing,...about them. Give me and car to restore, build a race car or engine, and I'm happy !

If your system is sucking allot of juice and you are trying to limit the number of EB's you have handling your tank, the newer EB may be nice so you can have more granular information as to which devices can/cannot be plugged into a single bar and home circuit. If this isn't the case, the original is fine. Also, if you have some very low amperage devices that may not be enough to trip a triac, then the newer bar will be better.

 

[ClownBubbaJoe]

I think Breadman03 hit this. Regardless, the EB8 (original energy bar) will allow monitoring of the "entire" output of the energy bar. In comparison, the new EB832 will allow monitoring of each outlet.

Keep in mind, and although monitoring of each outlet is cool and potentially very helpful at times, even though the new EB832 allows for 10A per outlet, you cannot exceed the bar's overall amperage handling just as you cannot exceed your home's outlet handling on that line/breaker. This will likely be either 15A (most common) or possibly 20A.

Ah, I see. So I can't plug in my cloths dryer ? Well forget it then ! :rollface:
lol,...Thank you.

 

[ClownBubbaJoe]

I assume the old one is ok for handling a small ATO powerhead, or does it have a hard time ?

 

[AZRippster]

Ah, I see. So I can't plug in my cloths dryer ? Well forget it then ! :rollface:
lol,...Thank you.

Funny you say this, however I had to run a 30A dedicated circuit to handle my halide lighting that I control off of an EB4. This pushes the limit of the EB4 but seems to handle it just fine.

 

[AZRippster]

I assume the old one is ok for handling a small ATO powerhead, or does it have a hard time ?

That should be more than fine. I've heard people having problems with AC/DC adapters for things like solenoids not tripping the triacs. In this case, they just plug the adapter into 4 or 8.

 

[ClownBubbaJoe]

Man, I wish I had your brain. :lol2:

I have a kind of related question, but I'll send you a PM.
Thanks bud.
Kev

 

[lmm1967]

I thought the new power bars were not compatible with the old apex units?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ClownBubbaJoe]

I watched a Apex company spokesman video and I'm pretty sure, that he said all current products will work on the Gold system, but I'm not positive !

Unlike the game players like Xbox......(don't have one and never will, but ya know) ! :angryfire:

 

[LXXero]

yes, the eb832 shows power draw per outlet, as well it shows all the outlets amperage and wattage as "graphs" under the graphs button up top. take a look at the bottom right corner. IF you keep clicking that yellow box, it changes into various things, one is a picture of the eb832 with the numbers over the actual outlet positions, one is that view which is a little more readable, and then one is a graph of the total usage, you can watch as your heaters kick on/off and stuff

 

[sleepydoc]

What people described above are the differences between SSRs (Solid State Relays) and mechanical relays. SSRs are non mechanical and not prone to mechanical failure, but have other electrical idiosyncrasies like limited current and minimum power draw to 'trip' on, hence the difference between outlets 4/8 and the other outlets. Assuming they are using good quality relays, failure shouldn't be a big concern, and the board could theoretically monitor for failure by detecting current draw when an outlet should be off. Having all relays makes it much simpler for the end user since they don't have to concern themselves with electrical idiosyncrasies.

I watched a Apex company spokesman video and I'm pretty sure, that he said all current products will work on the Gold system, but I'm not positive !

Unlike the game players like Xbox......(don't have one and never will, but ya know) ! :angryfire:

No - the Apex 2016 can use the EB8 (and all the old accessories,) but the (old) Apex Classic cannot use the EB832.

From their website (https://www.neptunesystems.com/faq-for-customers-about-the-next-generation-apex/):

"Can I use the new Energy Bar 832 with my Apex Classic?

No. One of the best features in this new Energy Bar 832 is the power monitoring. To accomplish real-time power monitoring on eight outlets (or even more if you have more than one EB832) requires system resources, such as onboard memory and processing power, that is just not available in the Apex Classic. Sometimes this happens with technology, you have to keep moving it forward but to do so you cannot keep forward compatibility going on forever.​

One advantage of individual outlet current/power monitoring is you can set up alarms if the power draw is outside of the expected range. A good example would be heaters. I had a heater element burn out. The light was on, but it wasn't heating. It took me some time to notice the temp in my tank slowly dropping when the other heater couldn't keep up, but one could theoretically setup Apex to give an alarm if the current draw was < 0.5A when the heater was supposed to be on.

 

[LXXero]

What people described above are the differences between SSRs (Solid State Relays) and mechanical relays. SSRs are non mechanical and not prone to mechanical failure, but have other electrical idiosyncrasies like limited current and minimum power draw to 'trip' on, hence the difference between outlets 4/8 and the other outlets. Assuming they are using good quality relays, failure shouldn't be a big concern, and the board could theoretically monitor for failure by detecting current draw when an outlet should be off. Having all relays makes it much simpler for the end user since they don't have to concern themselves with electrical idiosyncrasies.

triac's aren't perfect either like you say, and they can get stuck on/off like you said, personally, i'm glad they ditched the triacs, it just made things overly confusing for the average person, and from my understanding these relays are supposed to be high quality. My Stand-alone temp controllers use relays too, so i mean, it's not like any differnet from what i'd be doing with my heaters otherwise

No - the Apex 2016 can use the EB8 (and all the old accessories,) but the (old) Apex Classic cannot use the EB832.

correct.

One advantage of individual outlet current/power monitoring is you can set up alarms if the power draw is outside of the expected range. A good example would be heaters. I had a heater element burn out. The light was on, but it wasn't heating. It took me some time to notice the temp in my tank slowly dropping when the other heater couldn't keep up, but one could theoretically setup Apex to give an alarm if the current draw was < 0.5A when the heater was supposed to be on.

yep. that's a big reason I took a screenshot of that graph! i also noticed the wattage readouts seem more accurate than my killawatt, it's a lot closer to the pumps actual rating when at full blast than what my killawatt reads...

for some heaters you might wanna maybe a delay to said alert to ensure it stays low for X amount of time. some heaters, like my aqueon pros, will run a calibration on startup and won't start using full heater power right away....pretty sure that should be easy to work around in the apex code with delay statements though, i haven't actually tried to configure alerts yet though.