Echino Problem

[ReefMonger]

Alright Im having some issues with my tank. Lately some of my echinos are receding. Also have a candy cane that is receding too.Tank parameters are
Nitrates- 0 ppm
Alk- 9 dkh
Cal 440ppm
s.g- 1.025

I was running 250 watt xm 15ks for about 4 months now. I had coralvue 14k before them. Im wondering if its due to the low par on the xms. Would you run the xm 10ks or 20ks instead? Looking for some help.

 

[kahunakatz]

I have a lot of questions for you. What brand of test kits gave you those numbers. Some brands are far more reliable than others, although those numbers are so good I can't imagine them being that far off base. What is your pH? What do you keep your temperature at.

Are your XM HQI or Mogul bulbs and if HQI are you sure the UV shielding is not compromised in any way. I don't think it is low PAR though. Most corals especially candy cane corals don't need high light. I have heard of a parasitic crab that can consume Echinophyllias but that should not affect your candy cane.

Best Wishes,
Barry

 

[BlueStag]

What about feeding? Do Enchino's need feeding? I would think so...after lights out mine always open up and appear to be feeding. Are you feeding the tank ever?

 

[kahunakatz]

I am sure feeding would help but an LPS like Echinophyllia probably catches microfauna at night even if you do not deliberately feed it. I am sure they catch any kind of zooplankton you feed the fish. Tissue recession is often linked to Calcium or Alkalinity imbalances but unless the test kits are faulty I doubt it here.

If the reaction happened when you changed out the lights maybe XMs are actually putting out more light in certain spectrums which are stressing out the corals. Make sure that Infra Red light is not a problem, Echinophyllia skeletons seem to conduct heat. Also, are you dosing Iodide. Sorry for all of the questions, it is just a process of elimination.

Best Wishes,
Barry

 

[ReefMonger]

I should clarify. They dont recede right away. They start losing color and turn white to clear and the tissue get real thin then it starts receding.

 

[RandyO]

Hey ReefMonger,
What kind of fish do you have in that tank? And also, what's the temperature? Where are the corals that are receding? Up high, middle, on the bottom? What about other LPS? Any other Echinos showing signs of stress? Is this happening in your 90 gallon?

Sorry for all the questions, but it will help to try and find out what's going on.

I've seen Echinos bleach out from getting too much light, but recently, a friend had all his echinos bleach from doing a couple big water changes in his tank. I don't have much of the details on that, only that he neglected the tank, and then did a couple big water changes, and his Echinos and Acans nearly bit the dust.
I'm holding them all for him now, and hopefully they will recover.

If you have any tangs or angels in your tank, keep an eye on them to make sure they are not picking on the Echinos. My clowns pester my echinos sometimes to make them spit out zooxanthelle so they can have a snack. I had a Fiji Devil damsel do this in the past, and I removed him.

 

[ReefMonger]

The echinos that are exhibiting this are in all areas of the tank. No angels or tangs because I dont trust them. Just a bangai cardinal and some fairy wrasses. Temp runs 78-80. I do have black tahitian moon sand. Dont know if this is causing problems?

 

[xdusty6920]

wow thats wierd man, and a toughy at that. ive had a few mysteriously start receding on me as well. fortunately though they didnt bleach or anything and a quick fragging followed by a lugols dip fixed the problem. however since your echinos are bleaching and obviously stressed i would take this course of action yet. id suggest having a local reefer come over with thier test kits and testing your water to see if all your tests are fairly accurate and simliar. if no obvious red lights go off in the test, then id start with a 30% water change and dose a small amount of iodine. repeat in a week and you should start seeing your echinos coming back.
i feel ya on the not trusting the tangs. id love to have a powder brown tang but i have to many goodys at stake for that. good luck and keep us posted!

 

[xdusty6920]

btw i have xm 20k's on my display and xm 14k's over my frag tank (which house some of your echino frags lol) and all seems to be happy

 

[ReefMonger]

Yea its really weird cause some echinos are growing mad crazy. Maybe ill pick up a salifert iodine test and check that as I dont usually dose iodine. I have done 2 50% waterchanges since things have been acting up.

 

[xdusty6920]

also, check out your magnesium level. for some reason ive noticed that when some challices are going downhill the magnesium is low. i got a large bottle of magnesium and it seems to have remedied the problem.

 

[ReefMonger]

Thats what Im gonna test for tomorrow. I have been meaning to do that. Thanks for reminding me. Im gonna test strontium too. This is really really irritating me now. There is no reason for this. Im thinking maybe its the black sand? Seems like things started happening with this.

 

[Klay]

What are you phosphate's reading at?

Some echino's are very sensitive to elevated phosphate levels. And candy canes are very sensitive to it.

 

[ReefMonger]

Well mg levels are a little low at 1155ppm. Phosphates have climbed a bit to .75-1 ppm hard to tell. I guess I need to change my phosban. Still kinda clueless why things are doing this

 

[Klay]

1ppm?? that's really high and would definitely explain what you're going through

what kind of food do you feed? and how often?

 

[ReefMonger]

I really dont feed that much. Its my laziness to go downstairs and get water from the ro. So I have been using tap. Finally caught up to me. Still dont think the phosphates are causing the bleaching though.

 

[lvreefer]

GET RID OF THOSE 15k XM Bulbs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anything else they produce is top notch but those 15k bulbs are trash. They have very low PAR. Switch to either 14k or a different brand, 14.5K Megacrome.

And since we are on the topic of phosphate:

"One paradox is that aquarists often report very low phosphate levels yet have undesirable algae problems. The problem is that hobbyist test kits only measure inorganic forms of phosphate. This is readily used by algae and corals, and removed by skimming. However, organic forms of phosphate can then become new sources of inorganic phosphate. This explains why hobbyists often report low levels of phosphate ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Â the inorganic phosphate the kits are designed to measure is rapidly depleted, but the organic pool is still available to replenish the supply."

- J. Charles Delbeek

In other words run PO4 remover esp. since you used tap water.

 

[xdusty6920]

the magnesium is alittle low but i dont think its low enough to be causing your problems. the phosphate would deffinently be more likely. btw, toss the phosban in the trash and pick up some rowa. i switched around christmas and im very happy with it. seems a bit more effective then phosban. i use tap water sometimes in my tank too. ive been doing it for years so its no big deal. just make sure you use dechlorinating drops.
i kinda agree with ivreefer.....kinda. the 15k xm's do have low par, BUT they are more then sufficient for lps and challices. challices will grow like crazy even under pc's even. (ask randyO).
however i wish i could give you some input on your black sand. but ive never used the stuff just because there arent a ton of reefers out there using it and having success. you might wanna look into silica.

 

[ReefMonger]

Well last week I switched to xm 10ks so im adapting the corals to that. I like the brighter look anyways. Im pretty sure Im gonna take out the black sand as I didnt have these problems when I had white sand in my 68. It all started when I switched to the 90 and moved to black sand. Still puzzles me why other things are growing crazy like echinos,zoos, sps. And the chalices affected were on the bottom and on the top of my tank. ????????????

 

[ReefMonger]

I may have stumbled upon something well a buddy of mine suggested it. Stray Voltage. I dont get shocked or anything when I put my arm in the tank but I tested it and I am running between 40-50 mVolts. This could explain why my scotts velvet a few months ago seizured right in front of me and died. Im gonna hook up a ground probe to the gfci and see if I see improvement. This is soooo frusterating.