electrical help please

[NicoleC]

Egads no, you can't just add a bigger breaker! It's a good way to cause an electrical fire.

Even if the wiring looks big enough on the parts you can see, without pulling the whole line you have no way of knowing you don't have a hazard. After a few homeowners have had a house you never know what wierd things your previous Do-It-Yourself-ers have done.

The other piece of dangerous advice in this thread is just to run something on a different outlet. Many outlets share the same breaker. You can divide the load between breakers (good) but you need to test the outlets to know which ones are on which breaker first.

 

[omeg]

Yinger, good way to do it is to use a dedicated ground fault for your fish tank, that way if it trips, it just turns off the stuff for your tank.

Also, if your tank is close to a bathroom, you could run some extra lines from your bathroom, those are usually on different lines than your living room. Bathrooms usually have two also, one for the outlets and one for the ceiling lights/fan.

ohh, if you're working with electricty, best to buy a volt/amp meter, else don't even bother. Also, if you're not comfortable with working with wires, don't even bother.

electricians do costs a lot though, something like 50/hr and most don't do walls that they have to break to install lines, etc.

 

[laverda]

It is unusual for all the outlets in a room to be on the same breaker in newer houses. Double check all the outlets in the room. Are the lights on the same breaker too? What I did so I could have my tank on two seperat breakers, is tap in to the outlet that was on the other side of the wall my tank is on. in my case it hapens to be outside, but it was on a different breaker. It is a real easy safe way to add an outlet. Take a look and see if their is possably something you could do this with. Outlet in the garage, patio, or even a light fixture. Let me know if you need some help.

 

[SteveOhh]

I've seen many new homes built where the outlets in the room are all on the same circuit. The trend for that started about 20 years ago when DIY'rs & some electricians came to the conclusion that each room shoud have a dedicated circuit, that way you only have to throw one breaker to shut off all the power to that room. I personally like that idea, but then again if I ever rewired my house, I'd have about 10-12 different breakers to run everything. Downfall is if you ever overload the circuit in one of the rooms, you can't just plug into a different outlet in that room on a different circuit.

 

[BigElephant]

Please don't just change the breaker. That is VERY DANGEROUS! Have someone that knows aboud the building code or an electrician to check and make sure that your iinside wire can handle the bigger breaker before you do so. You certainly don't want to have a house burn down due to the electricity fire.

There is always a reason the breaker is there for that size if wire!

 

[SteveOhh]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7708335#post7708335 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by omeg
electricians do costs a lot though, something like 50/hr and most don't do walls that they have to break to install lines, etc.

Let me know a LICENSED electrician that works for $50 an hour & I'll give him ALL my work.......................

Typical GOOD electricians get $65 - $80 a hour & an OUTSTANDING one specializing in fiding dead shorts will cost you in excess of $100 an hour (but well worth it IMO)

Steve

 

[BONDQ]

Yinger,

You absolutely must get an electrician to properly assess you electrical needs based on the structure, the amount of power you require, and the safe means to impliment it. Those that have mentioned here that you cannot change the breaker without properly sizing (gauging) the wire, are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
Never change a breaker UP without the proper matching wire gauge!

When you see house fires on the news and the cause is "faulty electrical wiring" this is what the news anchor is referring to.

Regardles of how much you like your tank, it is simply not worth endangering yourself and family members by taking on electrical modifications on your own; if you are not familiar with doing so already.

If you wish to DIY, take the proper safety precautions and makes sure you use the correct materials the first time.

With regards to your projector/computer and vacuum, you should never at any time run these on these same circuit.

Vacuums are notorious for feeding back noise into the line and causing significant current spikes and sags which are VERY damaging to the power supplies installed in sensitive audio/video and computer equipment.

With regards to your tank, I would never run a vacuum on the same circuit as my lighting. While I don't believe you would cause damage to pumps, the current spikes and sags as well as the noise feedback of a vacuum could damage your ballasts and bulbs. This damage has an acculmulative effect on sensitive items, as it is rarely immediate.

I'm sure many people here will comment that they successfully run their vacuums with a variety of other items on the same circuit, but I would argue that they are shortening the "life" of those products due to the additional stress applied by the vacuum to the power supply of said products sharing the line.

 

[Yinger]

wow, lots of good advice here. I'm definitely not going to touch the breaker myself at all. The downstairs room does have a bathroom attached to it, maybe i'll try to see if that's on a different circuit.

Laverda, how did you install a new outlet? The outlet opposite to the the fish tank outlet is in the garage.

SteveOh, we live in Tustin, right on the boarder btw Tustin and Irvine. The houses are all brand new so that might be why everything is one circuit. We might take you up on the offer for a quote in the near future.

Thanks again everyone! For now, I won't be running everything at once haha.

 

[NicoleC]

My condo was originally wired with all the lights and outlets on ONE 15a circuit. I kid you not. Applicances got their own circuits; as people added applicances they got the other circuits. I added two circuits for the tank, even though I didn't really need them; just a safety feature.

When my place was built, no one had a computer or fancy stereo system or many other high-power daily items we have now. So it wasn't a big deal. But you never know what lurks beneathe the wals in older homes.

 

[bonbon060604]

Thank you for all your concern, the breaker been changed for almost a year now. Yes, if you don't know how to do it, please DON'T touch anything. I wouldn't recommend anything.

For the record my dad was a electrician for almost 30+ years now, he was the one tested and replaced the breaker. I was there to look only, took hime about 5 minutes. Eventhose, we have changed to a higher amp breaker, my dad tested the line and everything is fine. We changed from 15 to 20 it's not that dangerous, beside I am not using one breaker, I've split everything into 2-3 breakers, run 2 extension cords, so the breaker never max out.

 

[BigElephant]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7708817#post7708817 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bonbon060604
Thank you for all your concern, the breaker been changed for almost a year now. Yes, if you don't know how to do it, please DON'T touch anything. I wouldn't recommend anything.

For the record my dad was a electrician for almost 30+ years now, he was the one tested and replaced the breaker. I was there to look only, took hime about 5 minutes. Eventhose, we have changed to a higher amp breaker, my dad tested the line and everything is fine. We changed from 15 to 20 it's not that dangerous, beside I am not using one breaker, I've split everything into 2-3 breakers, run 2 extension cords, so the breaker never max out.

Bonbon,

I agreed. Don't touch it unless you know what you are doing or you have someone that knows what they are doing.

I am one of those advantures guy and I would try things that I don't know enough. Electrical been one of them. However, I do have electrician to back me up. Sometimes I do things that they mentioned I shouldn't do.

Without knowing what kind of wire that Yinger has in his house and the actual usage, it is very difficult to recommend if he should install a new circuit or just replace the breaker. However, on the safe side, it is always better to get a new circuit. Of couse, the bad side is that it will cast more. Alternatively, don't plug the vacumm into the same circuit or getting a battery power vacumm would be something to do in the meantime.

 

[Yinger]

i'm assuming since the vac is 12 amps... it sucks up about 1300 watts? does that sound right?

 

[BigElephant]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7712358#post7712358 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Yinger
i'm assuming since the vac is 12 amps... it sucks up about 1300 watts? does that sound right?

12 amps! For a 15 amps circuit, that is a lot. You definitely going to tripp the circuit when putting this vac on.

Here is some conversion information. I found on internet.

Converting Watts to Amps

The conversion of Watts to Amps is governed by the equation Amps = Watts/Volts

For example 12 watts/12 volts = 1 amp
Converting Amps to Watts

The conversion of Amps to Watts is governed by the equation Watts = Amps x Volts

For example 1 amp * 110 volts = 110 watts

Converting Watts to Volts

The conversion of Watts to Volts is governed by the equation Volts = Watts/Amps

For example 100 watts/10 amps = 10 volts

Converting Volts to Watts

The conversion of Volts to Watts is governed by the equation Watts = Amps x Volts

For example 1.5 amps * 12 volts = 18 watts
Converting Volts to Amps at fixed wattage

The conversion of Volts to Amps is governed by the equations Amps = Watts/Volts

For example 120 watts/110 volts = 1.09 amps

Converting Amps to Volts at fixed wattage

The conversion of Amps to Volts is governed by the equation Volts = Watts/Amps

For Example, 48 watts / 12 Amps = 4 Volts

Explanation

Amps are how many electrons flow past a certain point per second. Volts is a measure of how much force that each electron is under. Think of water in a hose. A gallon a minute (think amps) just dribbles out if it is under low pressure (think voltage). But if you restrict the end of the hose, letting the pressure build up, the water can have more power (like watts), even though it is still only one gallon a minute. In fact the power can grow enormous as the pressure builds, to the point that a water knife can cut a sheet of glass. In the same manner as the voltage is increased a small amount of current can turn into a lot of watts.

 

[Spartan081]

I just had an electritian add two dedicated 20 amps line and breaker for my tank. $200 with parts and labor. PM me and I'll give you his number. He is fully licence and insured. Very cool guy to work with.

 

[F35-Joint Strike Fighter]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7712358#post7712358 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Yinger
i'm assuming since the vac is 12 amps... it sucks up about 1300 watts? does that sound right?

that's not working current, it's peak current.

 

[UnlimitedReef]

F18 is the man who can do electrical for your house. He just did (add on) a new breaker for a friend.

 

[Captain Quirk]

"wow, lots of good advice here. I'm definitely not going to touch the breaker myself at all. The downstairs room does have a bathroom attached to it, maybe i'll try to see if that's on a different circuit."

Sounds like a good plan. If it is, perhaps you can tap into that.

Also, you may want to snug down the lugs on the breaker(s) first. Over time they heat, cool, heat, cool, and eventually create a gap which increases resistance (and in turn heats up and draws more current).

"Laverda, how did you install a new outlet? The outlet opposite to the the fish tank outlet is in the garage."

See if it's on the same circuit. If not, tapping into the one in the garage should be a piece of cake. Cutting a small hole in the wall on the inside of the house and fishing a wire to the garage box would be a lot less hassle than any other option.

"SteveOh, we live in Tustin, right on the boarder btw Tustin and Irvine. The houses are all brand new so that might be why everything is one circuit. We might take you up on the offer for a quote in the near future."

If you're unsure, be safe and not sorry.

But in all honesty, in this hobby, what's a couple hundred bucks? AFAIC the peace of mind alone is worth the money. The guy who replaced his 20 with a 25... Well, at best in room temperature a 12 ga wire can do 23 amps. That's also for a very short run. To me, what he did has great potential for disaster. I mean, a circuit breaker is there to act as the weakest point in the chain; if there is too much current, it opens. Now the weak point is the entire length of wire and/or the physical connections (they oxidize and create more resistance. Electrical resistance=heat...).

Take someone up on their offer to check things out for you. Be smart enough to know when you don't know, and ask for help. Gerry-rigging is OK sometimes, but not for long term use or when safety is involved.

Bruce

 

[Fmellish]

Buy a book and read about how electricty works before you go melting any wires or electrocuting yourself.

You should never replace a breaker with a more powerful breaker. Chances are the lines were not designed for the higher amperage at full draw.

You should only add breakers to your box, or if your box is full most electricians will add a sub panel, (a 2nd new breaker box), and add the new breaker there. Regardless, whether adding to old panel or adding to a new panel you should run new wires.

I had an electrician add a sub panel for my spa and fed it 70 Amps @ 240v. He left me extra empty breaker spots for future expansion. I'm glad he did.

After determining my spa was rated for 50 Amps max, that left me with 20 Amps @ 240v left over. I installed a new 20 Amp @120v GFCI breaker and ran all new wire within conduit, 12 gauge. you will have to run conduit with compression fittings at 18" off the ground if the wire will be outside of a wall. At least in CA.

And yes, vacuums pull a ton of current. Most boast clearly on the unit their "power" in amps.

Cheers
Josh

 

[F35-Joint Strike Fighter]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7708418#post7708418 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SteveOhh
Let me know a LICENSED electrician that works for $50 an hour & I'll give him ALL my work.......................

Typical GOOD electricians get $65 - $80 a hour & an OUTSTANDING one specializing in fiding dead shorts will cost you in excess of $100 an hour (but well worth it IMO)

Steve

the ESP Meter can tell you the dead short circuitry within inches!

 

[IsaaX]

Ok, I'm gettin scared lol. Everything electrical that is used in my tank is on one circuit which the majority of the stuff in the kitchen is also on (microwave, 14 canned lights etc.) I found this out today when my wife decided to use the microwave while the chiller was going (20a circuit). I really would like to have the tank stuff on a deadicated circuit. I do know the basics of ac current, but there's no way in hell I'm gonna even get into it physically lol. I'm a computer geek by trade.

SteveOhh, I live near you (Cerritos) are you an electritician? I really want to have this done because SoCal Creations will be delivering my new complete custom system at the end of the month and would like to have this done at around that time. It would be nice for a fellow reefer to do it as they would know what type of equipment would be used.