Electrical wiring questions

[Reefugee]

I am planning on moving my sump/refugium/chiller out to the garage to reduce the noise in the living room and remove the heat (from the chiller and equipment) from the room. The only problem is that there are only two circuits out in the garage.

Circuit 1: 20 Amps 110V
Washer, dryer (gas), and 1/2 of the kitchen circuit.

Circuit 2: 20 amps 220V
Electrical Dryer (I don't have an electric dryer though)

I can't add a pump, chiller, and lights to circuit 1 because it will blow when I use any appliance in my kitchen. In addition, I occasionally use that circuit to run my power tools. The other problem is that my power panel has no more opening so that I can't add another circuit. I am left with a few options:

1. Split the 220V back down to two 110V circuits (maybe 20 amps each). Running wire out to the garage shouldn't be a big deal since my house is on a raised foundation, and I can run the wire in conduits underneath the house.

2. Upgrade my existing circuit panel to one that can handle more circuits. I would use the same 15 amp rating for existing wiring (14AWG). Then I can add two or three 20 amp circuits into my garage. One dedicated to the washer dryer, one for my powertools, and one dedicated to my tank.

3. I don't know if this is possible - but can I run power out to my garage and have a new circuit panel out in the garage? My old circuit panel would remain, but the garage would have a new circuit panel. I prefer this if it's possible because I eventually want to have a woodshop out in the garage and may want a two or three phase outlet for some of the tools. If I do this, I will probably hire an electrician for the main wiring, and I would do the minor wiring. Is it even legal to do this?

BTW - I want the wiring done correctly and up to code.

Comments?

Thanks
Minh

 

[matttaylor]

Option 3 would be the best. Talk to Steve (funman1) when he has time because he should have some ideas for you. In the meantime i'll talk to my buddy (general contractor) and see what he thinks.

Matt

 

[Reefugee]

Matt,

I been doing some more reading, and it does seem like option 3 is the best. I am installing is a subpanel. Basically - I would replace my current 30amp dryer circuit with a 100amp circuit ($100). In addition, I will have to run 2AWG wire in a 1" non-conductive conduit out to the panel in the garage. Install a panel in the garage. I have been able to find a 6 space / 12 100 amp distibution circuit box for $30. Once that is done, all I have to do is wire the rest of the garage.

I am still doing a lot of reading and there is still a lot to learn.

I am dry walling the garage, so I want to put in as many power outlets as possible.

Minh

 

[funman1]

Yep option 3 sounds best for you.
however they do make double pole mini breakers.
So you could replace one of your breakers in the panel with a breaker that has 2 built into the size of the one you removed.

I will write more when I have some more time.

 

[CaliforniaDreamer]

Hi Minh, I agree a sub panel is your best bet. I would do a standard 100 amp breaker in your main box feeding your sub where you can install circuits with GFCI breakers right in the sub. (A GFCI main would prevent giving you the option of splitting your tank circuit into at least two GFCI circuits so that if there is a problem all of your "stuff" isn't offline. Also although it is not code (at least not here in sacramento) I would replace the "fake" input breaker in the sub-panel with a real 100 amp breaker so that you have a single switch to shut of all power should the need arise.

 

[CaliforniaDreamer]

P.S. Also Minh, I don't think you could run 3 number 2 gauge wires and a ground in 1" conduit, they are very large and stiff. You will probably need 2" conduit.

 

[funman1]

Ok I have a moment to expound...
If you are going to run a sub panel you will also need a gound wire, including the other 3 (2 power and 1 netural.)

You may want to check and see what size main you have on your house, most older houses don't have more than 100 amps to begin with.
So a 50 Amp sub would prolly do in your case, and that would save you a BOATLOAD in coper wire prices.

 

[jkreefer]

There is deff no reason to do a 100 amp subpanel. I agree with funman a 50 amp is way more than enough to run your current and future needs. For a 50amp you will need 3 #6 AWG and a #10 ground in a 3/4" conduit. And you can still use that same circuit breaker box for 50 amp, because it is rated for up to 100 amp. PM me if you have more questions

 

[Reefugee]

Steve, John and Jeff,

Thanks for the information. I will go with a 50 amp box instead of a 100 amp box. Steve was right that my main box is 100 amp.

I assume that the ground can be run back to the main circuit breaker using 10AWG wire. So if I read everything correctly, I will need 3 #6. I don't know if that comes with the 10AWG copper grounding wire. I will try to make a run to HD tonight to look at things.

Thanks again!

Minh

 

[Sparkss]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10009852#post10009852 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefugee
I assume that the ground can be run back to the main circuit breaker using 10AWG wire.

There will be a grounding bus in the main panel that you will need to tie that ground wire to, and another corresponding one in your sub panel. The same goes for your neutral wire.

 

[Reefugee]

I have been doing more reading on electrical work. I have a question.

According to the book I have, I should do the following:

In the subpanel - I should add a ground bare if there isn't one. So in the subpanel, I will have a ground bar, a neutral bar, and two hot wire. I run the four cables back to my main panel. In the book that I have, the main panel seems to have a shared neutral and common bar. Why do they have a share neutral and common bar? Mine has separate bars for neutral and ground. I assume that I should wire the ground back to the main ground bar and the neutral back to the main neutral bar.

Last - I am going to add a 240V for a new tablesaw that I am purchasing. My current 240V (dryer) only has three prongs - two hot and one ground. The NEC 2005 (?) code now stipulates a four prong outlet for two hots, one neutral, and one ground. Why is it possible for my current 240V to operate without a neutral? I guess I am confused on the difference between neutral and ground.

I can do all the wiring by just following the book, but I am interested in why things are done the way they are. So what is the difference between neutral and ground?

Minh

 

[funman1]

This is complex to explain why in text.
You have PM with my Ph number. I can do a much better job in speech



I just took a class on this exact thing a few months ago.

 

[Reefugee]

Steve,

Thanks for the the very informative phone conversation. I learned a lot more than I was expecting! You're very knowledgable in electrical works. Thanks again!

Minh

 

[funman1]

No problem

Let me know if you have any more questions.

 

[Reefugee]

You weren't kidding. To run 4 6awg wire from my main breaker box to my gargae is going to cost $320 for just the wire! Copper wire prices are insane!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10007141#post10007141 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by funman1

So a 50 Amp sub would prolly do in your case, and that would save you a BOATLOAD in coper wire prices.