Excessive carbon source causing burn tips and bubbles on the rock?

[teambutterfield]

Excessive carbon source causing burn tips, algae and bubbles on the sand and rock? High Nitrate?

It is not ALK or Calcium, I double checked those. Not sure if its phosphate because Hanna kit shown its at 0.6.

 

[Znut Reefer]

I don't believe the P04 is the problem. Mines been higher than that with no issues. What is the nitrate? Any changes lately?

 

[SnapperSlapper]

I am dealing with the exact same problem right now. I am having some white sliming tips, bubbles on all of the rocks, and a brown film algae starting on my monti corals. I am also dealing with cyano I never had before. I started a couple of zeo products about 10 days ago, and this is the only change. Main params are all where I want them as well and have been steady. Nitrate and phos not showing on test kits. Alk @9.2, calcium at 430, and mag at 1440. I am going with water changes and no more dosing until I can get back at least to where I was before I started. A bunch of money spent, and more problems than I have had in years. When I resume dosing it will be at 1/4 of what I was using.

 

[slapshot]

Yep, I started and then chickened out when I started getting Cyno. I have read the white tips are from too high of Alk along with the carbon dosing. Too much work for me. It took several large water changes and a few weeks to get things back.

 

[plyle02]

from my understanding, sps can show ill signs running c-source type system with alk anything higher than 8dkh, at least that is what zeovit reports and requires. So, I would look to that for any possible coral concerns, specifically those where tissue is receding. All the above mentioned sand and rock deposits are directly related to overdosing carbon source. I would start very low with any carbon source, and slowly ramp up over several weeks. Cyano is also a great indicator that you have added too much carbon source. Also, are you running GAC, whether passive or active, is one of the staples. Next, I would add live bacteria as to not create a bacteria monoculture, this will aid in seeding many strains of positive bacteria which is how these systems work, from my understanding... Finally, if you do not have a powerful skimmer, this could also be a failure point in the system. As far as adding zeo supps, which ones...???

 

[teambutterfield]

from my understanding, sps can show ill signs running c-source type system with alk anything higher than 8dkh, at least that is what zeovit reports and requires. So, I would look to that for any possible coral concerns, specifically those where tissue is receding. All the above mentioned sand and rock deposits are directly related to overdosing carbon source. I would start very low with any carbon source, and slowly ramp up over several weeks. Cyano is also a great indicator that you have added too much carbon source. Also, are you running GAC, whether passive or active, is one of the staples. Next, I would add live bacteria as to not create a bacteria monoculture, this will aid in seeding many strains of positive bacteria which is how these systems work, from my understanding... Finally, if you do not have a powerful skimmer, this could also be a failure point in the system. As far as adding zeo supps, which ones...???

No, I do not run GAC. Tank is a 225 with water volume around 270. The skimmer is a ATB Medium Cone. I will double check on the ALK, but the last reading was showing 8. Thanks for all the inputs. Lets continue this, since not just me that is having trouble.

Side note, I am having high nitrate due to my own error. It went from over a 100ppm to around 50 now in a span of 7 days.

 

[plyle02]

WOW,
That is too quick, while it is nice to see that decline, doing it over 7 days means too much c-source addtions. Also, get that GAC running today, very important to have in this type of system... Your skimmer is a GREAT one, just take it slow... I would add maybe .5ml of vodka, and 5 drops of bacteria to your tank daily. Overtime, you can ramp those dosages up, but doing it too fast is why your corals are upset... Also, get some water changes done with zero tds water and a quality salt. I think this is key in carbon source systems, not large ones, but 10% weekly would be advised.

 

[teambutterfield]

All these were started when I started losing old colonies and some frags. Algae and bubbles started showing up. Then, I stopped dosing BW biofuel and MB7; started changing at least 10 to 20% of water every other day (started exactly one week ago) with tropic marin pro salt. Due to someone suggested high nitrate swing. BTW, what is GAC? lol. I also just added 2 bags of chemipure carbon that is enough for 400 gallon 7 days ago. I am using a doser to control my cal and alk. I do not believe those are the problem.

 

[plyle02]

GAC=Granular Activated Carbon...
Sounds like you have carbon in the system, that is good. Biofuel is a strong carbon source, I would relax dosing for a few days. IMO, I would chill for a few days on everything, then begin dosing MB7 at 4-5 drops for a couple of weeks, then I would begin to start adding BF at 4-5 drops, you can ramp up each week at this point. Then, you only need to add MB7 once per week, I recommend after water changes at 5-10 drops. Continue to do small amounts of BF and add MB7 as you see fit. Sunnyx's thread is long, but very detailed and similiar to the system you are trying to employ. Your coral problems are likely directly related to a change in environment too quickly. Just take it slow, persistence will prevail... During water changes I would use a python sand sifting tube to remove sand deposits when siphoning water out. Try and get as much off the rocks as you can as well, not to worry, your skimmer should pull out what your syphon does not. Stay the course, it takes awhile to break your tank into the system...
GL

 

[SnapperSlapper]

My tank is a 120 with about 8 gallons in sump/equipment/plumbing. After rock and livestock I am figuring about 100 gallons. For a skimmer i am using a tunze 9010 I believe. Skimmer does great, if I skip a day of feeding I see the skimmer slow way down on production, never seems overloaded. Also run BRS GFO/carbon in a reactor.

Having pretty low nutrient as it is, I was not wanting to go with the full zeovit set, so was just adding the following:

For 10 weeks:
Coral vitalizer - 4 drops a day
S-plus trace elements - 6 caps after each water change, once a week


Last 10 days:
Sponge power - 4 drops a day
pohls extra- 4 ml a day
LPS AA - 2 ml a day
zeo food 7 - 3 drops every 5 days
Amino Life reef nourishment - 2 caps a week

Sure appreciate the help, but after typing that out I now see how my tank has more pollutants than the Hudson river and it is no surprise on the bacteria problems. Didn't realize I was adding so many things.

 

[teambutterfield]

I think I learned my lesson.... Don't believe the hype!

 

[SnapperSlapper]

I don't think that it is hype, but as I have heard before a rather complex system of very regimented dosing that has a good outcome. I didn't follow the rules and I am paying the price, but that's not out of the realm of normal in my way of doing things. I was having a great turnaround in some of my rather drab colors prior to the cyano thing, so I know there is a reward to be had in the end. I won't give up this soon, my wife would kill me after what I spent on the last korallin order. In fact I may have to fill the bottles up with water in the mean time just to act as if I am still dosing.

 

[teambutterfield]

I was getting just as good of result before switching to the carbon dosing system. Just like what everyone want the crazy colors. The tank was doing just fine with good color, but human nature, want even better. As I gather, it seems like more people is having trouble with this semi-new method.

I was under the impression that biofuel and mb7 will make my skimmer even more efficient.

 

[vdubfiend]

had the exact problems a few months ago

alk should be down around 7-8 with the carbon source.

a few water changes over the next few days should help.

i have been doing 5g water changes about every 3 days for the last 6-8 weeks
and keeping parameters stable...

everything has begun to color up nicely in the last 2 weeks

sal 35ppt
n03 1.0-2.5 (up to 3.5ml dose now)
alk 7.0 (2 different salifert kits)
cal 420 (salifert)
mag 1480 (salifert)
temp 79

I too had some trouble with the carbon dosing but hung in there and it has turned around.
cut dosing back
alk needs to be lower
skimmer needs to be above average

take it slow-when you first start dosing/testing and you see what a ml or two does you want to too much- too fast haha

 

[teambutterfield]

can you see a color change from before carbon dosing and now? I do see a small change, but I think the risk is higher than the reward at this moment.

 

[ryanjiang]

I think if the ultimate question is if you really need to achieve ULN, yes I saw lot of ULN tank shows amazing color, but I also saw at least same amount of tank shows same level of amazing color with 10, 20 PPM NO3, that level is certainly not qualify for ULN.

To me I dose small amount of vodka just help to export some nutrient, I don't mind if my NO3 goes to 5 or 2 or 0, as long as it is not going to unacceptable level and algea is in check, I am fine. Even that I sometime have some red slime poping up here and there but not overwhelming, as soon as I see them I stop vodka but still keep daily dosing MB7 as bac source to fight with red slime, and recover vodka when red slime are gone. Maybe I should further reduce my dosage.

Water clarity is certainly improved after I start vodka and bac source, but I am not 100% sure it is due to cabon or adding of bac source, or both.