faded corals/ dealing with RTN/STN help

[motortrendz]

I have a 1 year old mostly SPS reef 92g bowfront corner tank with a 54g corner bowfront custom sump/fuge. I run a 5 stage RO/DI, a Bio Pellet reactor, and a carbon reactor.. i am running a ecoxotic panorama LED light.. im battling
p04 in this system..it ranges from 0.10-0.30, I have SPS in the system and some is doing ok, not great, but growing.. i loose alot of frags in this tank from RTN/STN i also get alot of browning, sems like all my colors are very dill, and loose that luster after some time. but purples, blues, greens just dont last.. latly i have a large duncan colony that was doing amaizing for a long time now will only open for a few hours a day.. I have a large frongspawn colony that is doing amaizing but im sure can do better...

in my sump i have a fuge area with live rock for extra filtration, also for some reason when i put ant kind of macro algea(cheato) into the sump within a week it completely vanishes, ive never had that before..

please help me, what should I do? I have tested everything and the following
as of today
amonia: 0
nitrates:0
alk: 9.0
ca: 410
mag: 1250
p04: 0.18
k+: 370

I dont have the money to buy another reactor and another set additives at this time.. I do have another pag of zeolites i bought, can they be used passively in the sump? is there anything else i should be testing for?

thank you for any advice/help
mike

 

[divewsharks]

how often do you do water changes? Is the water RO/DI?
What kind of fish load do you have and how often/what do you feed?
What kind reactor do you have the carbon in? Could you swap the carbon for GFO?

 

[motortrendz]

its a 5 stage ro/di water with 0 tds on the outlet.. i do bi weekly water changes of abt 30gallons. i have the carbon in a mr1 media reactor by next reef. i have abt a dozzen fish in the tank of mixed sizes from small(1.5-2") to meadium (3-4") with only 1 large(5") i feed a mix of frozed rinsed PE mysis/cyclopeez and sometimes small omega1 pellets.. I use a 25 micron filter sock changed out every 3 days..

 

[hedgedrew]

you might be better off with pulling the biobeads and going back to gfo to get phosphate down and just use cheto ball and vodka

 

[motortrendz]

the problem is every time i adde cheato its gone ibn 3-4 days, from a softball size if not bigger.. it just disolves..

so u think pull the bio pellets, put in gfo, start running vodka again? shoould i do a vodka/vinigar mix? do you think this is y im loosing all my colors the intensity.. plus the cause of the RTN?

or can there be something else im missing?

 

[hedgedrew]

i also dont know about those lights someone else should chime in who is knowledgable about all these led systems . im big metal halide guy but i would bet its either the light or the combo of your pellets and phosphates

 

[hedgedrew]

what about your skimmer and water temperature

 

[divewsharks]

as hedgedrew said, you need to get the phosphates down (phosphates impact color, growth and health of SPS); GFO does that. I would also increase the frequency of the water changes to weekly, until everything is where you want it.

 

[hedgedrew]

go 75 per vodka 25 vinegar think this is least amount of cyno and i would also do those water changes and i would pull bio pellets they are effecting your tank cheto ball i know this sounds nuts but install a halide beam it with light and get phosphates down

 

[blakers82]

Hedgedrew,

Why do you think changing the led lighting to metal halide will help bring phosphate down? Am I reading this right? IMO there shouldn't be a need to change out your lighting system. I don't recommend drastically changing your system, but my personal take is to slowly remove biopellets and use GFO in a reactor. My reasoning is I know two reef keepers who have tried the bio pellets on SPS reefs with disastrous results. I have read posts on the boards with apparently successfull biopellet use, but I've read way more bad stories than good and can't recommend them. Even with well below recommended pellet count.

Many report that GFO will bring down your phosphates and I am one of them. Consistently reading 0.00 on my Hanna Checker.

What kind of Skimmer are you running? Your load and feedings might be on the high side depending. I'd start upping water changes to weekly and running some RO/DI rinsed GFO in a reactor to bring down phosphate. (I know you said you can't afford another reactor, but that's my take. Perhaps you can find a used reactor to sale locally.) If you can get PO4 down and keep alk, cal, and mag stable for 6-12 months, your corals will reward your efforts. Good luck.

 

[hedgedrew]

Blakers. I didnr say that. I said 3 issues. First was bio pellets 2. Was phophate level and i rec. Gfo also. Amd lastly i wanted to put back cheto but grown out with halide light. But i said im big halide guy and dont know enough about his led lighting It might be fine. I just dont know

 

[mc-cro]

Lets get back to basics first before you go redesigning the system. when you change the water, do you just change the water, or do you siphon the substrate, blow off the rocks, and do major cleaning?

IMO, you have a fairly heavy bio load, and your p04 seems pretty high.

 

[motortrendz]

ok, as for water changes i use a turkey baster and blow off my rocks and in crevices i cant reach, i try not to disturb the sand bed too much by only blowing it loghtly form a bt 6-10 inches away to blow off any light debris... i have absolutly no cyano, or any other algea growth in my system my rocks are almost too clean with that.. I do have good coraline growth and as far as my skimmer i have a super reef octopus 1000 with the bubble blasater pump.. i also have an mp40 for flow, and my drain is a 1 1/2" with 2 1" returns with eductors.. as for water temp its between 77-78 degrees normally and 79 max

i also add 20ml of alk and 25ml of Ca daily, mag 20ml 2 times a week.. i try to keep everything constant with no fluctuations.. I will increase my water changed to weekly, still at 30g tho, right? and i will get gfo running today, do i still use the bio pellets for a little while or just stop the use? i can start a vodka/vinigar regimine right away.. i used to do it a while ago starting dose at just 0.40ml so should i do 0.30 vodka and 0.10 vinigar to start or is this too low of a dose?


i feel like a newbee, but yet i have very sucessful systems running and just cant get a hold of this one..

 

[mc-cro]

If it were me, the fisrt thing I would do is clean the system. I realize you say your rocks are too clean now, but that p04 has to be coming from somewhere. And if its been high for a while, its going to leach back out of the rocks. I recommend cleaning/siphoning the top layer of a sand bed, but others may not. When was the last time you cleaned the fuge?

After you have cleaned it really well, I would start taking the biopellets off, slowly over the next week or two.
continue with your water changes, and maybe go ahead with the GFO. you need to get the p04 down if you want sps

You need to get this tank reset to a good starting spot, and just adding more variables to the equation like bio pellets, vodka dosing, zeolites, and whatever else are just making it harder to get this tank under control.

 

[hedgedrew]

Have to multiply vinegar by 8. But go slow and remove bio pellets slow also. Agree with mc.

 

[Sophia&Dad]

Thoughts: increase circulation, reduce feeding, increase GFO and water change frequency, try chaeto again with LOTS of direct light and some circulation. If PO4 has been high for a long time as noted by mc-cro it may take some time (months) to respond due to cumulative adsorption in the rocks. I wouldn't bother adding or replacing corals until the PO4 is less than 0.05.

 

[sjfishguy]

I dose vodka and the same things happen to me when my alk gets above 8. I drop the alk below 8 and everything gets better. Others will say they have higher alks and have no problem, but its worth a shot.

 

[hedgedrew]

thats a good idea i agree which test kit are you getting 9 dkh on ?

 

[divewsharks]

you can swap your carbon for GFO, start slowly with GFO as it can strip the water quickly.
slowly pull the pellets as suggested.
you could do 15-20G a week of water changes.
what kind of light do you have above your chaeto?

how long have you had the issues?

 

[motortrendz]

i have an mp40 on the tank for flow, ive been battling this for months.. but corals were doing fine, but now theyre fading slowly.. i added gfo today and decreased my bio pellets by 1/4. I use an ecoxotic panorama unit for light, and i have a par 30 5,000k led light(home depot) over it, everybody locally swears by it and says they cant trim their chaeto fast enough..

as for test kits, i use the hanna for p04 and alk, and back up the alk with the api test. i also use the salifert for calcium and the red sea for mag..

should i start a vodka/vinigar dosing regimine as well? ive done vodka before with good results but never vinigar.. if so how should i split it up to start?