Feedback on my 'Fish Wishlist' for 1000+ Gallon System

[Dustin1300]

Tank Build/Background Info:

I'm currently building out a larger system and am in the midst of starting to stock QT so I can add them to frag tank and grow out tank (Build Thread). In the next 6-9 months I will be saving up funding and putting in place a 600 gallon DT (96"X48"X30").

Total system volume right now is ~285 Gallons and fish will be housed in ~140 Gallon Frag Tank (54"X36"X18") until DT is brought online. QT process will be 6 weeks in 75 gallon tank in hypo and treating with Prazipro, followed by further observations in a 4 week acclimation in frag/grow out tank, and then moving to the 600 gallon DT.

Wishlist:

I've been working on a 'Fish Wish List' so I have some type of road map and can add fish as the tank matures. That being said, I've not started a tank from scratch for 5+ years so a lot of this information contains lots of cob webs in my head! Take a look at the list below and let me know what you think.

I planned on possibly picking up the blue tang and two snowflake clownfish next week. Since both have a good temperament I thought they'd be good to start out with. More aggressive tangs, group of anthias, butterflies, and mandarins would all be put off until the main DT is up and going so tank has matured some and they are not stressed.

Questions:
- Any fish you'd recommend if you had a tank this size?
- Any on the list you'd steer clear of?
- With the wrasses I currently have, do you think I'd have a problem with keeping inverts or should I axe them off list? I've had sixline/christmas wrasses with no problem with inverts in past....Still need to figure this out.

 

[aleonn]

Although you have a large DT, I would avoid putting more than one pair of clownfish in the tank. I've been told that they eventually become territorial with each other, especially if they become a mated pair.

I had a mystery wrasse that I put into my tank long after I put in my cleaner shrimp. There were no problems with him eating my shrimp or other inverts, but he always picked on subsequent wrasse/goby additions to the point of death. I'd either add the mystery wrasse last or steer clear of him, IMO. Scott's fairy wrasse, from reports on RC, can get big and semi-aggressive so I'd also add him towards the end.

 

[Dustin1300]

Thanks Aleonn. I actually planned on having the two clown pairs separated...One pair in DT and one in frag tank. I'd like to buy some of my more favorite tangs like the clown but scared about the aggression once moved to DT.

 

[geaux xman]

I think you will end up needing to run 2 QT tanks. Once you start hypo, you cant really add any more fish without having to restart the hypo time. Maybe even consider going the cupramine route. Copps and Chris Campbell stick solely to cupramine and they are some of the best in the business, so I think it would be a good idea to follow their QT regimen. I would also consider running a big UV unit.

I like Nando's fish list... somewhat simliar to yours.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2118769&page=2

You will probably have to pick out either the powder blue or powder brown due to aggression issues. Lemonpeels while beautiful, they have a terrible track record in reef tanks.

Personally, I would start QT with 4 Yellow Tangs and the blue hippo in one tank. Also start with 10-12 anthias in another tank. Then a pr of clowns in a 3rd QT tank.

Just throwing out ideas...

 

[Reefing Newbie]

You are going to want tangs added to your tank towards the end because some of them don't play nice to new fish additions. Work your way from most peaceful to the most aggressive. Firefish before wrasses and anthias because they are quite timid. Anthias after the firefish. Then I would add flasher wrasses together then add fairy wrasses together after the flasher wrasses are established. This is where I would do the blenny and cardinal additions. The clown goby may not be seen as much in such a large system, but if you do go with it add it with the blennies and cardinals if not before the blennies. I would then do the angelfish. When you have a mature tank you can add the mandarins (don't have anyone that they will threaten for food). After angels are settled in the tangs are okay to start stocking as well as the mystery wrasse.

Clownfish would be fine to add after cardinal fish are added. I think that hits everything for order. This should give you a decent idea of where to start with additions. The order is a general idea and not to be taken literally because every fish is different in personality.

 

[albano]

IMO...
not sure if that chart is 'yours', but the max size and total inches is of little use...have you really seen a 4.5" clown or mandarin? will your naso be 18"? Inches per gallon means nothing!
Scotts fairy wrasse can get aggressive...also may lose color
Lemonpeel and Copperband are questionable

I had 2 pairs of clowns to begin with, but the larger Occ. F would not leave the T Perc. F alone, so I removed the t perc...now the ho has BOTH males at her side 24/7! (also have 1 clarki clown)

here's my 80 fish in my 96"x40"x27"h 450g DT...
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[divewsharks]

when i first added a mystery to my system he was well behaved, as he grew bigger became a bully and ate all of the inverts (including cleaner shrimp) in the tank. If you go with one, should be one of your last additions.
As for the wrasses, have you considered getting a male and an couple of females, it would help a Scotts's keep its color. Or look at rhomboids, lineatus, laboutei, flame.....

 

[Dustin1300]

WOW, this thread got lots of responses after I had already hit the pillow! I'm going to try to read here and there this morning and come up with responses and some possible considerations on changes. If I'm unsure on the fish in the DT they will likely reside in the frag tank

In the interim, while I'm reading through the responses....If this was your tank, considering the other fish selected...WHAT WOULD YOU ADD? I love to see fish that are not mainstream and I might not be aware of it...

 

[Dustin1300]

I think you will end up needing to run 2 QT tanks. Once you start hypo, you cant really add any more fish without having to restart the hypo time. Maybe even consider going the cupramine route. Copps and Chris Campbell stick solely to cupramine and they are some of the best in the business, so I think it would be a good idea to follow their QT regimen. I would also consider running a big UV unit.

I'd like to stick with hypo in the fish QT system for stability issues should I have to go out of town for work unexpectedly for a few days. With running hypo, I can easily add/remove water through automation through a couple Drew's dosers. (Plan on building a water change station soon that will expand upon my 2 X 44 Gallon Brutes and add 2 X 165 Gallon Vertical Tanks). Copper introduces the problem of easily monitoring for copper levels, but with hypo I just received a PM2, conductivity probe, and temperature probe last night that I'll use to keep SG at 1.008-1.009. My only question at this point is whether I can run prazipro in conjunction with the hypo...Or whether I should add a couple weeks to my QT period and do hypo for 6 weeks, followed by a ramp up on the SG to 1.025 with prazipro treatments for 1-2 weeks.

In regards to additional QT tanks, I'll likely add 2-3 40 Gallon Breeders to the top of my 3 tier stand I built like a tank. This will help make a larger QT water volume and help separate the fish to minimize aggression.

Current fish room. 3 tier stand currently has a 15 gallon frag qt tank, and 75 gallon fish qt tank. I'd likely add the 40 gallon breeders above as I've got 10+ foot ceilings to work with. ***Sorry it's still a bit of mess but still under construction!

I like Nando's fish list... somewhat simliar to yours.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2118769&page=2

I love Nando's tank and actually plan on doing the rock walls on sides/back too I don't see a fish list in that thread, the TOTM article, or the TOTM thread. Am I missing something? His tank is also much smaller than my DT so maybe I need to add more fish (I know I can hold many more than the list above)

You will probably have to pick out either the powder blue or powder brown due to aggression issues. Lemonpeels while beautiful, they have a terrible track record in reef tanks.

I hate to make the decision between the two tangs. I've kept a powder brown in past and loved the beauty but also have always loved the idea of having a powder blue. You think aggression would be that bad in the 600 gallon DT? I know from the previous powder brown, he had a ton of personality and rarely hid away but if the powder blue was too aggressive might not see that much!

The butterflies/angels might go to frag tank for close observation around frags for quite some time so I can see how they behave. If they don't respect the coral, they'll go back to Premium Aquatics for other livestock purchases.:lol2:

Personally, I would start QT with 4 Yellow Tangs and the blue hippo in one tank. Also start with 10-12 anthias in another tank. Then a pr of clowns in a 3rd QT tank.

I know these tangs are the most timid of the group....But this seems like a lot of stocking to me with just having the 140 gallon online and not the DT yet

Just throwing out ideas...

Everyone's opinion helps!

 

[Dustin1300]

You are going to want tangs added to your tank towards the end because some of them don't play nice to new fish additions. Work your way from most peaceful to the most aggressive. Firefish before wrasses and anthias because they are quite timid. Anthias after the firefish. Then I would add flasher wrasses together then add fairy wrasses together after the flasher wrasses are established. This is where I would do the blenny and cardinal additions. I would then do the angelfish. When you have a mature tank you can add the mandarins (don't have anyone that they will threaten for food). After angels are settled in the tangs are okay to start stocking as well as the mystery wrasse.

Clownfish would be fine to add after cardinal fish are added. I think that hits everything for order.

I appreciate the detailed list! As far as the Anthias, everyone think it'd be fine to add them while still in the 140 gallon frag tank? Is 10 a good number or should I increase that? Should I want to increase the number of Anthias, can I add them later down the road or is this going to effect the pecking order too much?!

The clown goby may not be seen as much in such a large system...

I was thinking this too when you compare sizes. I might just make this fish a resident of the frag tank.

The order is a general idea and not to be taken literally because every fish is different in personality.

Understood. I've been in the hobby for ~5 years and can say that some of the fish I've kept differ so much! I've been on a vacation from any fish for nearly a year now! Sold tank/livestock when I put house on market and ever since moving into new house last year have had the itch and started planning and building this system 4-5 months ago.

 

[Haffs09]

Nice looking fish list! I agree on adding the tangs last. I plan on doing that when I restock my tank. For other tangs, I love my achilles and fowler's tang. I would love to have a blue spine unicorn tang, but my tank is too small and I probably wouldn't put one in your's either. They get very big.

Do you have specific corals you want to keep? I ask because I love angelfish too and depending on your response, you may be able to get a few nice ones. I have a majestic, emperor and goldflake. I may try pairing the goldflake down the road or getting a regal angel, I don't know yet.

On the dwarf angels, I would try getting a harem of one or two species. I have a trio of multicolor angels and a pair of flames. I had a pair of potters, but unfortunately I lost the male during QT. On three occassions, I tried getting a harem of flame angels, but was unsuccessful all three times.

I'm also on the hunt for a 5-6 pyramid butterflies. I think they would look great in your tank too!

 

[Dustin1300]

IMO...
not sure if that chart is 'yours', but the max size and total inches is of little use...have you really seen a 4.5" clown or mandarin? will your naso be 18"? Inches per gallon means nothing!

Chart is mine but had just pulled the raw numbers from LiveAquariua. I'd agree the sizes are not realistic and not sure why I really needed to see the numbers but I'm a numbers guy. Inches per gallon means nothing in marine as fish being PIGS varies so much!

IMO...
Scotts fairy wrasse can get aggressive...also may lose color
Lemonpeel and Copperband are questionable

This is why I'm asking for opinions now! What wrasses do you have in your tank and which would you recommend?

On the angels/butterflies I realize they might be questionable and is something I'd likely add quite a bit later down the road! I'm just trying to do proper planning and can adjust the list as time progresses.

I had 2 pairs of clowns to begin with, but the larger Occ. F would not leave the T Perc. F alone, so I removed the t perc...now the ho has BOTH males at her side 24/7! (also have 1 clarki clown)

Good to hear from someone with a tank in same size category. Size of the tank throws out some of the rules and is why I'm asking for opinions. I'll likely have one pair in DT, the other in the frag tank. Frags need POOP!

here's my 80 fish in my 96"x40"x27"h 450g DT...

Your tank is absolutely beautiful and truly an inspiration. I've seen it before as your lurking RC often but keep up the great work on it. You have build thread I could read? Any advice on the order of additions and what regimen you went with?

 

[Dustin1300]

when i first added a mystery to my system he was well behaved, as he grew bigger became a bully and ate all of the inverts (including cleaner shrimp) in the tank. If you go with one, should be one of your last additions.
As for the wrasses, have you considered getting a male and an couple of females, it would help a Scotts's keep its color. Or look at rhomboids, lineatus, laboutei, flame.....

As I stated earlier, I've had little experience with wrasses but want to keep a good variety of fish and not one I want to overlook. I loved the two I had before but the sixline started getting a bit too aggressive. The Christmas wrasse liked to trick me that he had disappeared and then would appear from the sand bed!

 

[Haffs09]

In terms of QT, I run three separate hospital tanks (20H, 30L and 55). I have a couple of Coralife Super Luft air pumps supplying sponge filters in each tank and airstones in my makeup water tanks. Each hospital tank also has an aquaclear HOB filter and depending on the fish in the tank, I'll toss in a powerhead too.

With my hypo experiences, I can't recommend that for ich. I'll try the tank transfer method the next time I QT a single fish. Otherwise, I use cupramine for 4 weeks. It's not difficult to maintain proper levels either.

 

[albano]

What wrasses do you have in your tank and which would you recommend?

I have about 30 wrasses, most of which I enjoy...my favorites are my Lineatus, Hooded, Flames and Red Velvets.
some that I wouldn't bother to replace are Pylie, Whipfin, Mystery, possum, Solar, Scotts, Condei...

Your tank is absolutely beautiful and truly an inspiration. I've seen it before as your lurking RC often but keep up the great work on it. You have build thread I could read? Any advice on the order of additions and what regimen you went with?

Thanks...my tank build is on Manhattan Reefs (same screen name) I can PM the link to you

When I upgraded to the 450g, I combined 4 other tanks into it, so MOST fish were all added at the same time. Since then I have added just about anything (including Regal Angel, pair of Flame angels, and many wrasses) without problem...I have had great success with an acclimation box to introduce new fish

 

[Dustin1300]

Nice looking fish list! I agree on adding the tangs last. I plan on doing that when I restock my tank. For other tangs, I love my achilles and fowler's tang. I would love to have a blue spine unicorn tang, but my tank is too small and I probably wouldn't put one in your's either. They get very big.

I love the achilles/unicorn and definately agree on needing a bigger tank for the latter. I'd like to keep the achilles but could I get away with an achilles, powder brown, and powder blue in a 600 gallon tank?!

Do you have specific corals you want to keep? I ask because I love angelfish too and depending on your response, you may be able to get a few nice ones. I have a majestic, emperor and goldflake. I may try pairing the goldflake down the road or getting a regal angel, I don't know yet.

I'd like to keep about any coral that's not a WEED (xenia, gsp, shrooms, etc). It'll be a mixed reef as I'm not a fan of 100% stick gardens I like some movement and will keep anything from beginner euphyllias to zoanthids and a wide variety of LPS/SPS.

On the dwarf angels, I would try getting a harem of one or two species. I have a trio of multicolor angels and a pair of flames. I had a pair of potters, but unfortunately I lost the male during QT. On three occassions, I tried getting a harem of flame angels, but was unsuccessful all three times.

I'm also on the hunt for a 5-6 pyramid butterflies. I think they would look great in your tank too!

I love angels/butterflies too. This is just the beginning of my list of fish and I'm adding/removing fish as I get others opinions/ideas. I've loved pyramids in the past and think you've just persuaded me to add them to the list

 

[Dustin1300]

In terms of QT, I run three separate hospital tanks (20H, 30L and 55). I have a couple of Coralife Super Luft air pumps supplying sponge filters in each tank and airstones in my makeup water tanks. Each hospital tank also has an aquaclear HOB filter and depending on the fish in the tank, I'll toss in a powerhead too.

With my hypo experiences, I can't recommend that for ich. I'll try the tank transfer method the next time I QT a single fish. Otherwise, I use cupramine for 4 weeks. It's not difficult to maintain proper levels either.

I know your speaking from experience with the ich problems and know it has been unfortunate for you As far as the cupramine goes, what is your regimen? 4 weeks treating cupramine (Stacked with anything else?) If you want to PM me your process that'd be great. I really need to do some further research on the topic but I've got a week or so...

 

[Haffs09]

I think you will be okay with adding all three acanthurus tangs at the same time. Of course, you will need to monitor them and if aggression issues are prolonged or get too intense, be ready to remove a fish. Nonimmigrant has 4 achilles tangs and a powder blue tang in his six foot tank. I think he's had them for two years and it has worked out for him. But, he's also planning on a much larger system to move them into in a year or so.

I know with my mix of angelfish, I will unlikely ever be able to have zooanthids and/or LPS corals.

On the QT procedure, this is what I have evolved too:
1. Acclimate fish and try to get eating within the first week. Observe the fish during this time for any obvious signs of disease that will require special treatment.
2. Treat 3 rounds of prazipro, 5 days apart with 30-50% water changes between treatments.
3. Perform a large water change (50-75%) and run carbon for a week.
4. Remove carbon and start dosing cupramine, dosing enough to raise copper levels 0.1ppm/day until I reach 0.4ppm +/- 0.1ppm. I prefer using the Salifert test kit over the SeaChem kit.
5. After 4 weeks, perform a large water change, run carbon and observe for another week or so. During the treatment, I usually perform 25-30% water changes every 5 days. I've never used an ammonia alert badge, but if I did, I suspect I could go longer between changes.

With the fish that came from my DT, known to have ich, I will observe them for an additional two months before putting them back into the DT.

I have always QTd multiple fish in multiple tanks at the same time. I want to try the tank transfer method and I may do that when I get another powder blue tang. If I do that, I'll use the tank transfer method, prazipro routine and then observe for 4 weeks before moving to the display tank.

 

[Dustin1300]

Thanks...my tank build is on Manhattan Reefs (same screen name) I can PM the link to you

If you would PM link it'd be appreciated.

 

[albano]

If you would PM link it'd be appreciated.

was sent...you should have it