Feeding NPS idea

[bues0022]

I'm in the planning stages of setting up my NPS tank. As I'm new to NPS, I'm trying to do lots of research and plan ahead to work out kinks and setup things correctly. I have an idea for feeding the tank that I'd like others to critique.

Picture shown below.
Fully automatic method would involve dosing phyto into the HOB fuge maybe once or a few times a day.

More manual method (probably the way I'll start with):
I'll put some phyto into the HOB fuge once a day (green).
In the HOB fuge is a rotifer culture (red dots).
An air pump will put some air bubbles slowly into the fuge for the rotifers.
Several times a day (maybe 4) I will turn the aqualifter pump on which will cause the HOB to overflow into the tank - thus dosing both green water (phyto) and rotifers to the tank.

Optional thought: I could also toss in a bit of frozen food into the container each day. It would thaw, the bubbles would help break up the cube, and the food would stay suspended with the flow from the bubbles. This would then also overflow into the tank with the rest of the rotifer/green water.

I think I would plan on "overflowing" between 25-30% of the total water volume of the container each day, thus keeping the rotifer culture thick.

If the frozen cube into the container fouls the rotifer water too much, I could have two of these such devices. One would have the rotifer culture, the other one would be for the food overflow.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated, as right now I'm running on 100% theory - which doesn't always hold true when it goes to practice.

 

[stunreefer]

IMO/IME hang on back refugiums do not export nutrients sufficiently enough to keep your display algae free in any type of reef, let alone a dedicated non-photo tank. You'll likely encounter excess nutrients (+ nuisance algae).

 

[bues0022]

I think perhaps my nomenclature was not the best. I am merely using the HOB fuge as a container for culturing and dosing rotifers. In fact, it will be a source of nutrient import instead of export. I was hoping to get insight on the validity of my full plan above.

 

[MARINECRITTERS]

I think perhaps my nomenclature was not the best. I am merely using the HOB fuge as a container for culturing and dosing rotifers. In fact, it will be a source of nutrient import instead of export. I was hoping to get insight on the validity of my full plan above.

Your little invention looks like it could work, the thing I have trouble rapping my brain around is, how will you make the flow slow enough so it does not pour in all at once?

Also what are you planning for nutrient removal?

 

[bues0022]

The flow is actually going to be pretty simple to maintain. Bubbles keep everything aerated, and won't affect flow. The aqua lifter controls the flow, and I control the aqua lifter. When the pump is not on. No water will enter or leave the container. When I turn the aqua lifter on, I'll only have it run for a minute or so. The water volume that the aqua lifter doses in will be the same water volume that spills out into the tank. Since the rotifers will be continually reproducing and I add phyto, this cycle will just continue.

I am planning on having a sulfur nitrate reactor and a turf scrubber for nutrient export.

 

[ZephNYC]

With all due respect, I simply dont think it will work well enough to supply rotifers. Ive been keeping NPS for about 3 years now and the amount of rotifers required is far far more than a continuous feeder off a small live culture can ever provide.

 

[bues0022]

ZephNYC, no need for the formalities on the thoughts on my idea. I'd rather have a good discussion with ideas on both sides than a rubber-stamp that it's good, then have it fail. I have more questions after your feedback:

I'm only planning on a 30 gallon tank. How many rotifers should I be looking at attempting to dose the tank with? (maybe I could up the container size to help out more)I take it that I should not rely solely on this as the main feeding source then?

 

[ZephNYC]

ZephNYC, no need for the formalities on the thoughts on my idea. I'd rather have a good discussion with ideas on both sides than a rubber-stamp that it's good, then have it fail. I have more questions after your feedback:

I'm only planning on a 30 gallon tank. How many rotifers should I be looking at attempting to dose the tank with? (maybe I could up the container size to help out more)I take it that I should not rely solely on this as the main feeding source then?

I tried to edit my last post but got some type of error and was not able to. You read my mind though. Your idea is excellent as a supplement and possibly could maintain some of the easier nps gorgonians etc...but if youre thinking about soft corals, scleroneptheas, and god forbid dendroneptheas, youre going to need a lot more than that. I would keep it just as you proposed, as a base line feeder, and just plan on targt feeding as much as possible in addition. I mix up a big cup of the following once or twice daily and target feed nearly every time I pass the tank (s).

Frozen rotifers
frozen daphnia
tahitian blend cryo preserved frozen phyto
kent microvert
julian's marine snow ) not brightwell garbage)
I also like 5 - 50 micron golder pearls and add them occasionally.

 

[Allmost]

I tried to edit my last post but got some type of error and was not able to. You read my mind though. Your idea is excellent as a supplement and possibly could maintain some of the easier nps gorgonians etc...but if youre thinking about soft corals, scleroneptheas, and god forbid dendroneptheas, youre going to need a lot more than that. I would keep it just as you proposed, as a base line feeder, and just plan on targt feeding as much as possible in addition. I mix up a big cup of the following once or twice daily and target feed nearly every time I pass the tank (s).

Frozen rotifers
frozen daphnia
tahitian blend cryo preserved frozen phyto
kent microvert
julian's marine snow ) not brightwell garbage)
I also like 5 - 50 micron golder pearls and add them occasionally.

Hello,
can you let us know about the amounts you feed daily ?

how often ?

thanks, looking very good.

 

[ZephNYC]

I have to be honest and tell you I hardly ever use continuous feeders anymore, I did 24/7 at first, but just felt there was alot of unnecessary food going in the system. Not that I was worried about nitrates or phospahtes, which are always at 0 and I dont even use a phosphate remover. So as time went on I started turning them off more and target feeding more. And eventually I was target feeding all the time and never running the feeders. These days I only run the feeders if I will be out all day or night. So I target feed different corals different amounts. Dendroneptheas, which are in a separate system - as much as humanly possible, could be 10 times a day or 20 if im home all day. Scleroneptheas much less but still around 10 X daily. Gorgonians a few times a day and of course they get leftovers from the scleros. I feed at night as much as possible too because Im usually up till 2 or 3 am. Also I think carbon/vodka dosing helps nps ALOT. Dont know what others say about that but I love it.

 

[stunreefer]

Zeph, you have gorgeous tanks. Keep up the great work :thumbsup:

 

[Allmost]

good info thanks. that's what I do currently as well ... but problem is when I get back from work, the carnation tree is usually half way closed, as it hasnt been fed for over 9 hours !

I do add dry FM foods while I am at work, seafans stay open all time, but not enough for the carnation. gonna try overfeeding before I leave in the morning and see how it goes.

 

[bues0022]

Zeph, do you use a skimmer? I will not be, and thus am wondering if the wasted food will be less of a concern. I am working towards having an NPS tank, without having to put my hands in it 20x daily. I work 8-10 hours, and with a 1.5 year old child at home, cannot be spending all of my time on my tank. I don't see this as being a continual feeder either, likely 4-5 times a day or so. When combined with other feeding routines (1x or at the most 2x daily), I am hoping to start my NPS tank. I will not keep the types of animals that you speak of that need so much micromanaging, but rather the sea-fans and gorgs mostly.

I appreciate all of the information, however. It is most useful during my planning stages.

 

[ZephNYC]

good info thanks. that's what I do currently as well ... but problem is when I get back from work, the carnation tree is usually half way closed, as it hasnt been fed for over 9 hours !

I do add dry FM foods while I am at work, seafans stay open all time, but not enough for the carnation. gonna try overfeeding before I leave in the morning and see how it goes.

I would target feed them a few times before work to get them to open, and have a doser run ( pyto, frozen rotifers and marine snow) for the 9 hours I'm out. Ive had those carnations for 13 months now and you just dont get the same response from dosing as you do target feeding. I can literally force them to open any time I want, and then start the dosing to maintain while im out. just dosing alone doesn't get them to open fast enough or sometimes at all. Its like...you have to pollute the entire tank and an hour later they slowly start to open, or you can hit them hard with a small amount of target food and they respond right away to a fraction of the pollution.
I would really have to explain my systems as to a possible explanation of why its all working out "pretty good" for me. and I do use other feeding techniques. In a nut shell, the main NPS is a 125. This tank gets heavily fed all day and night. heavy baby brine and arctic pods for black and orange sun corals too. Now all this pollution gets drained into a 125 sump, and further gets pumped into a 210 dedicated SPS tank. The entire system is around 500Gallons. The answer to pollution is dilution!!! I run a very large skimmer but I do not use ANY carbon ever!!! - and I do not use any phosphate remover. I have no problem with Po4 removers and used to run a reactor occasionally, but I just dont need to they always stay near zero now. Now what is great about this type of system is I can shut the main pumps off on the NPS tank, separating it from the rest of the system and fill it with food, like a big bowl feeding. Smaller circulation pumps keep everything moving nicely inside. I will leave them off for at least an hour, and then put the pumps back on and let the tank clear into the rest of the system. I also believe the large amount of clams, including a MASSIVE 25" Gigas, help keep my water clean. Also the system gets 5 gallon daily water changes and 10 ml Vodka.
I will take some updated pictures soon, thank you.
...Here's a nice pink scleronepthea =)

 

[ZephNYC]

Zeph, do you use a skimmer? I will not be, and thus am wondering if the wasted food will be less of a concern. I am working towards having an NPS tank, without having to put my hands in it 20x daily. I work 8-10 hours, and with a 1.5 year old child at home, cannot be spending all of my time on my tank. I don't see this as being a continual feeder either, likely 4-5 times a day or so. When combined with other feeding routines (1x or at the most 2x daily), I am hoping to start my NPS tank. I will not keep the types of animals that you speak of that need so much micromanaging, but rather the sea-fans and gorgs mostly.

I appreciate all of the information, however. It is most useful during my planning stages.

I think your system will be just fine as you've described it !

 

[Allmost]

very good info, thanks

is your doser in a fridge ? or the food doesnt go bad that fast you think ?

 

[bues0022]

I'm not sure if you were asking me or ZephNYC.

My dosers are going to be at room temp. The rotifer culture will not go bad, those are live creatures breeding and repopulating. The frozen food doser will be filled everyday. I'm not worried about a little nasty from the food hanging out in the doser through the day.

 

[Allmost]

asking everyone who feeds NPS


live rotifers ... of course.

but Im asking about frozen and refrigerated foods, they go bad within 2 hours in room temp. So are you planning on just dosing the spoiled food ? spoiled would mean that there is bacteria growth in it ... but when feeding a NPS tank, does that really matter ? I dont know. right now I dose all my Expired foods [still in fridge though] to the NPS corals and they seem to like it. lol so no Idea !

same Q for Zeph ... would love to know if you keep the frozen foods in room temp during the day or ...

 

[ZephNYC]

I dont refrigerate the doser. When I do use one its only a simple, rudimentary half gallon drip that will last about 5 -6 hours, so I am not overly concerned with it getting warm. If I was to use a long term dosing system to be refilled only once per week or so, then yeaa...I would refrigerate it.

 

[Northside Reef]

SO I came here to learn more about NPS systems, BUT I have to ask...

Is that an orangespotted filefish in with your seahorses and how is that working out for you? I love the look of that fish and never even considered he would be a good tankmate with the seahorses. I would love to hear more about your experience mixing these two species. Do you feed the filefish coral or have you been able to ween hm off of them?

Also amazing tanks you really have worked hard for your results.