First fish in new tank......

[corwise]

I setting up my 90 gal, and have gotten everything pretty much cycled. Rocks/sand are in, algea is growing nicely, and amonia and nitrites have pretty much hit zero.
When I first set up my tank in Idaho, the LFS's recommended I started the tank off with a "tough fish" to survive the inital stress that a new fish can introduce into a tank. Then, once everything had stablized after a week or two, I could put in more fish.
The problem is that this time I do not want either of the two fish they recommended, Damsels or Chromis. Now, is this a load of bs, and as long as everything is running fine I should be good, or is there possibly another good fish to go with? I know I can't do angels, tangs, etc for quite a while. But I was looking to do some gobies or so. Thanks.

Dave

 

[_Sooner_2]

I have had good luck with Chalk Bass. I still keep them in my tank. Do a Google and look at some pics. Most sites recommend adding them at the same time. Three would be a good amount for a 90.

I've purchased them locally at WetPets, The Reef Shop and Crystal Clear. They don't seem uncommon, so your local LFS of choice should be able to get them for you.

Ronnie

 

[captbunzo]

corwise - why don't you share some of your thoughts with us about what you plan to do with this tank. What sort of corals & fish do you eventually want to have in it...

For now, btw, I'd say that if you have any plans on a pair of clowns, now would be a reasonable time to add them. Get a pair of Ocellaris or Perculas. Get then tank raised and small (not longer then an inch). Just a thought... Maybe some pink or orange skunks...

 

[pwhitby]

Damsels give some leeway on getting going, but can be a pain. Chromis are usually model citizens....but if you dont like them....then they aint going to work for you.

Clowns are reasonably hardy, in a new tank. They can suffer when added to an established tank with lots of fish.

 

[corwise]

Captbunzo,

I'm trying to do a relatively friendly tank (so no damsels), and here's my current plan:

Mimic Tang
Sailfin Tang
Flame Angel
3-4 Clown Gobie
2 Neon Gobie
Brownbarred (Dragon) Gobie
Lawnmower Bennie
1 cleaner and 2 peppermint shrimp
and, if I have the room, a wrasse of some variety

And various soft corals. My last tank was fish only (didn't do my reseach and believed the LFS guy who said that a Dragon Wrasse wouldn't bother my few corals), so the main goals is to get some good corals going.

I could put in a pair of chromis (what's the plural, chomisis? ), but with the tank getting full already I'd rather not unless I have to. I thought about adding a pair of clowns and starting off with them, and it's still a viable option, but I was planning to put some in the 25 gal I'm setting up, so I'd rather not have the same stuff. Could always get a different kind I guess. I'll have to look up the Chalk Bass, but would they get to big and eat all my little stuff? Thanks much.

 

[Youngsilver]

All of the fish said above are great, just try not to put anything in that is going to be a pain in the arse later to remove should you decide you don't like...*cough*damsels*cough*

cromis are my personal favorites, bc no tank can have too many IMO the are hardy, peaceful,(unlike damsels) and can be kept in any number not just pairs like clowns.

 

[corwise]

I had 5 Chromis in my last tank, and they did great, just trying to do something different. I did look up the Chalk Bass, that does look like a cool option. Need to clear it with the boss of course...

 

[2ras]

I can concur with Paul's comment about Damsels.

I have a Yellowtail Damsel, he's currently ripping the flesh off of my hydrophoria! I hate this little Bas***d, & I wish it were dead...dead...dead. :mad2:

He pulled some flesh off of my Lobophytum before moving to the hydrophoria. Don't let this happen to you!

This guy was my first fish, and with my luck it will probably outlast everythnig else in the tank .

I have no idea why he's doing this either.


Good luck Dave...

Ray

 

[captbunzo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7776088#post7776088 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by corwise
Mimic Tang
Sailfin Tang
Flame Angel
3-4 Clown Gobie
2 Neon Gobie
Brownbarred (Dragon) Gobie
Lawnmower Bennie
1 cleaner and 2 peppermint shrimp
and, if I have the room, a wrasse of some variety

Thanks for posting that list for us. Looks like a pretty decent plan so far. A couple of thoughts:

1. Mimic & Sailfin Tang. I don't know about the Mimic, but a 90g is really not big enough for a sailfin tang. I'd recommend a yellow, scopas, or purple tang. The purple can be more agressive. I think it would be fine in a 90, though.

2. Flame Angel: This fish may or may not leave your corals alone. Angels are a little bit tricky.

3. Clown Gobies: I love clown gobies. However, the research I have done says that these often do not survive introduction into a tank as they arrive at the LFS horribly starved. This is what all of my research said. And then this is what happened when I got one. I was even being all sorts of anal about feeding it closely and all. One BIG tip is to only purchase clown gobies in stores that are eating and obviously NOT starved.

4. Dragon Goby: I have one of these. It is an AWESOME fish. It is also claimed (by some) to be one of the best sand sifting gobies for a tank as it is more likely to adapt to feeding.

5. Lawnmower Blenny: Needs plenty of algae to survive in the long run. You should wait until the tank has been up for a while and has a good crop. And I'd supplement with other algae as well. You can buy some good stuff for a very reasonable price.

6. Clowns: I really love them as for how friendly they can be to their owners. Very nice starter fish. Also, I would really recommend different types for different tanks. I have some Ocellaris at home and am thinking about doing some Pink (or Orange) Skunk Clowns in one of my next tanks.

Anyhow, these are just some things to consider. In the long run, you have to make the best decisions for your tank.

 

[corwise]

CaptBunzo,

Thanks for the inputs. Couple of questions on your thoughts:

1. Sailfin Tang: Aren't there two variants of a sailfin tang, a Redsea and something else? If I remember right, and I could be full of it, the Redsea is the darker one and it gets huge. The other variant is yellow, and doesn't grow as big/fast. One of the unfortunate things about the military is I know I'll have to tear down this tank in 3-5 years to move anyway.
Do you know anything about a clown tang? I think they look awesome, and can take a slightly smaller tank then most tangs, but I've read they're extremely aggressive, especially with other tangs.? Anyone else have one?

2. I know a lot of dwarf angels go after corals, but I thought Flames were some of the good ones. Of course, there's always the occasional guys who go after them anyway, but rule of thumb they're relatively safe correct?

3. Thanks for the advice, I had some in Idaho, one of the LFS always had a bunch, but I'll definately be careful around here.

4. Had a Dragon Gobie before as well, I agree that they're awesome for sifting the sand, and just a lot of personality.

5. Yeah, I know I need to hold off on this guy for a while, but he's an entertaining fish I've always thought.

6. And I'll look into some various clownfish. One question on tank raised vs natural, my understanding was that if I ever decided to do an annomee (sp?) with them, tank raised are much less likely to actually use it? Is this correct? Thanks.

Dave

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7778619#post7778619 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by corwise
1. Sailfin Tang: Aren't there two variants of a sailfin tang, a Redsea and something else? If I remember right, and I could be full of it, the Redsea is the darker one and it gets huge. The other variant is yellow, and doesn't grow as big/fast. One of the unfortunate things about the military is I know I'll have to tear down this tank in 3-5 years to move anyway.

Yes, there are two variants. One is from the Red Sea and one is from the Indo-Pacific and they are actually two different species. There is the Indo-Pacific Sailfin Tang (Zebrasoma veliferum) and the Red Sea Sailfin Tang(Zebrasoma desjardinii). Both of which grow to 40cm (~15.7 inches). They are usually rather calm compated to other tangs, but their size alone should leave them in only the largest tanks.

Do you know anything about a clown tang? I think they look awesome, and can take a slightly smaller tank then most tangs, but I've read they're extremely aggressive, especially with other tangs.? Anyone else have one?

The Clown Tang (Acanthurus lineatus) grows very large and very aggressive. They grow about 38cm (~15 inches). Not a good candidate for a surgeonfish.

I know a lot of dwarf angels go after corals, but I thought Flames were some of the good ones. Of course, there's always the occasional guys who go after them anyway, but rule of thumb they're relatively safe correct?

All Centropyge angelfish have a tendency to nip LPS and Clam Mantles. Some tend to be a little more tolerant than others, but they usually make up for with aggressiveness for others that are similar. Having a Dwarf Angelfish in a reef tank is just a risk. And everyone will have different experiences and opinions on them. Some are model citizens, but others have terrors. Like all animals, these fish all have their own temperment and attitude.

One question on tank raised vs natural, my understanding was that if I ever decided to do an annomee (sp?) with them, tank raised are much less likely to actually use it? Is this correct? Thanks.

That is a myth. The natural tendency to host is instinctual, not taught. Clownfish are wierd, though. Though they are seen in the wild to only host in certain anemones, it doesn't matter in the captive environment. They host to whatever they like. Including other anemones, corals, artificial substitutes, and even pieces of the tank such as powerheads and magfloats. Some even like to live on the wildside and host in things like Clam Mantles and Elephant Ear Mushrooms.

 

[captbunzo]

Travis - thank you so much for tagging in on this question. I am a little crazy busy today.

A couple of notes/questions/comments.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7778950#post7778950 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis L. Stevens
Yes, there are two variants.....the Indo-Pacific Sailfin Tang and the Red Sea Sailfin Tang Both of which grow to 40cm (~15.7 inches). They are usually rather calm compated to other tangs, but their size alone should leave them in only the largest tanks.

"Large" is a relative term, especially in this hobby. Can you define, Travis, what you mean by "the largest tanks"?

And, btw, surgeonfish = tang family o' fish.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7778998#post7778998 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by captbunzo
Travis - thank you so much for tagging in on this question. I am a little crazy busy today.

A couple of notes/questions/comments.


"Large" is a relative term, especially in this hobby. Can you define, Travis, what you mean by "the largest tanks"?

And, btw, surgeonfish = tang family o' fish.

Actually, Acanthuridae = tang family o' fish :lmao:

Well, I'll be honest. I have a completely different view of large tanks and the husbandry requirements of Acanthuridae. Most of which the average aquarist can't handle and the fish would be better left in the ocean But, if I had to bite my lip and give a suggestion of a reasonable tank size regardless of my personal views, I would recommend that a 225-250g being the minimum. Some references suggest that a 180g tank is the minimum, but think about it.... The fish gets almost 16" long and moves a lot. That's like putting a Dwarf Lionfish in a 10g tank.

 

[captbunzo]

So how big of a tank do I need for a Dwarf Lion?

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7779075#post7779075 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by captbunzo
So how big of a tank do I need for a Dwarf Lion?

Alright. Quit poking fun at me

 

[captbunzo]

Actually, it was a serious question.

 

[pwhitby]

the tank size is dictated by the food, not the fish, in this case. they are kind of messy.

i would say 30 is a minimum, to allow for filtration, plus...you cant keep any fish that is smaller than the lion. so...the lerger tank allows for tankmates. i wouldnt go under 75.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

I agree with Paul on 75g being a good size, though it would probably live fine and dandy in something smaller.

Some of the factors that I use to determine how I feel is a decent size tank for a fish is:
1) Messiness - Does it rip up food? Does it sift sand? Does it just pick at rocks? Does it make large amounts of waste?
2) Adult Size - We all strive to keep a fish until the day they die. With proper care, they will grow big before they pass on to fishy heaven. So, it makes sense that none of the sides of an aquarium are less than 1.5 times the total length of the fish. In the bare minimum, a fish that is 10" should at least have the smallest side of an aquarium at least 15". And that is still turning on a dime for the fish.
3) Territory - Compare it to its natural territory. Does it command just a little coral or cave as its own? Or does it swim miles in a day? Does it hunt over a wide range?
4) Aggressiveness - Similar to territory, if it is aggressive, then the other fish need room to hide.
5) Misc - Things like food source is a good example. There needs to be enough room for the food source to grow in order for it to eat enough. Think of dragonets.

 

[corwise]

Travis,

One question on Tangs, how fast do they grow? I'm in the military, if I make it 5 years here I'll be surprised. So I know at some point I'm going to have to sell/give away all my fish anyway. If I got a small, 1-2in, tang, would it be reasonable for it to be happy/healthy for five years before it outgrew the tank?
I understand where you're coming from, and as much as I'd like one I'm not aiming for a unicorn tang or the like, but if a fish lives for 10+ years how much of that is "big fish?" Thanks.

Dave

 

[mskohl]

In my opinion, you could probably do a yellow tang in your 90 gal. They have a shorter body and are less of a distance and speed swimmer as opposed to say the regal/ hippo tang.