First QT Q's

[ichthyogeek]

I'll be hopefully be picking up a trio of banggai cardinals (with luck it'll be a female and two males). Here's the bad news: they're most likely wild-caught, so I have to deal with many possibilities...Right now, I'm tearing down a 10 gallon planted tank so I can use the stand to hold a 20H for the QT. I've got live rock and a sponge already cycled for the tank, so the biological filtration is go. There'll additionally be an airstone to help with circulation, as well as a circulation pump. Questions:

Feeding: I've got Doc's Eco eggs, Hikari Spirulina Brine, Hikari bloodworms, Hikari and PE mysis (not sure on the freshness), red snapper roe, and omega one mini marine pellets. I've also got a vial of brine shrimp cysts ready for hatching. This should be a nice enough mixture to get them feeding, right? Should I hatch the cysts soon so the brine's large enough for the BC's to eat? I have Seachem Vitality to enrich the brine, as well as some phytoplankton.

Maintenance: It's a 20H, should I be worried about territory issues? I'll be trying to stack the live rock to make separate caves for all the fish, but is there anything else I should be worried about? When do I need to do water changes? What's the recommended turnover rate for a tank this size?

Introduction: the main tank (a 55) has a pair of kupang damsels. The coke bottle trap method should be able to catch them, right?

Lighting: Should I go with ambient room lighting if that's enough for me to see the fish with? I've got a few spare strip lights for 10 gallons, but I've read that BC's are partial to low light.

Cover: Do banggai's jump? I've got egg crate ready to go just in case, but should I be worried?

Disease: The LFS I get my fish from is pretty good, very few outbreaks of disease if any that I've ever heard of. But I've also heard about Banggai cardinalfish virus, should I be worried? Additionally, I've seen a pair of BC's go into what I can only describe as shock, which I'm assuming is due to malnutrition. How do I fix these should they occur? I'm aware of marine ich and TTM, so I'm good on that front.

Acclimation: Do I use freshly mixed saltwater? Do I do water changes using water from the big tank? How big/often of water changes? Acclimation's only supposed to go for a max of 30 minutes, correct?

I'm probably going completely overboard with this...but I'd like my fish to survive. Thanks for reading.

 

[eeyore357]

Good job on setting up a QT!! IMO it would be best to get captive bred fish whenever possible, for a number of different reasons. One of them being that they are use to flake and pellet foods. This makes QT much easier if they are eating.

You should have the tank cycled before they are added.
You don't want to use any rock in a QT. If you have to use medications it can interfere. The sponge should suffice. You just want a bare bottom tank with a piece or two of pvc pipe.
I wouldn't use an airstone it will just cause a mess. It's good to have on hand though. Some meds require you to increase oxygen.
What kind of circulation pump? You don't want a ton of flow but you do want a powerhead that is breaking the surface of the water a little.
Sounds like you have a good variety of food to offer them.
Territorial issue shouldn't be a problem with these fish.
You'll need to do water changes when your nitrites rise.
Did you QT the damsels in the DT? If not, it's possible the DT has already been exposed to parasites and the like.
Any fish can jump. I haven't head of them being more prone to floor surfing though.
I like to float the fish in the sealed bag for about 15min and drip acclimate for about 30min.

 

[Isaacs55]

Be careful!!! Acclimation process is most vital. If you do it too long it can be harmful to your fish, even at 30 min. Only acclimate if your salinity and temperature are out of range. If salinity is within .02 then no need to acclimate if temperature matches.

 

[gone fishin]

As far as acclimating just do a temp acclimation. Call ahead and find out what the LFS sets their salinity at and adjust your QT accordingly, verify it either at the store or when you get home. I believe you got the food angle covered.

I would not advise rock for your QT. A bare tank, heater, powerhead or airstone, some pvc to hide in.

I usually keep the tank at ambient light but have a small light to turn on for closer inspections.

FWIW I very seldom cycle a QT. I rely on WC's and I also like to keep an ammonia alert badge in the tank. I keep a supply of prime on hand for just in case, be aware that if you use prime in your tank then there is a good chance your ammonia test will not give an accurate reading. I would suggest getting the seachem ammonia test that is designed to work with prime. I also, like to keep a supply of water on hand for WC's. Nothing worse than needing to do one and not having any ready to go.

I use a cover all fish can and will jump given the right circumstances. Good luck just my 2 cents worth.

 

[ichthyogeek]

eeyore-The pump is a Marineland NJ900, I think they went out of production a few years ago. It's rated for a maximum of 247 gallons/hour, do you think this is too much flow? Additionally, the only PVC I have is 3/4" ID PVC, and I'm not sure how big the fish are, which is why I was planning on using the rock to make large enough caves. I did not quarantine the damsels in the normal sense of the word. They were originally in a 29 gallon tank (now turned into a planted tank), and they were then moved to the 55 gallon. So I can say with almost complete certainty that the DT has no parasites.

WC's : how often do I do them? Do I use fresh mixed water? Or should I use water from the DT to help acclimate the fish to the conditions? Additionally, do I fill the QT with water from the DT? Or should I fill the QT with fresh mixed water?

Acclimation: I guess there's lots of differing opinions out there...I'll probably drip water for 15 minutes to account for any changes due to me using a hydrometer and the LFS using a refractometer, then float the fish for 15 minutes. The LFS is about an hour away from my house, so there shouldn't be too many metabolic wastes in the water, right?

 

[eeyore357]

That pump is more of a utility pump. In my 20g QT tanks I use a maxi jet 600, seachem ammonia alert badge, thermometer, ambient light on my fish QT's, and aqueon quiet flow 30 or 50's. I keep extra filters in my DT sump.
I like to do a 10% water change every week, even if it's not needed. The main thing will be testing the water for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. You can use either DT water or freshly made saltwater. I usually use new because I don't do WC on the DT often. I do always match my QT parameters with my DT parameters.
Float the bag first, for 15min. Then drip acclimate for 15-30min. If you're not familiar with drip acclimation there are tons of threads here.
I wouldn't be worried too much about ammonia build up for an hour but temp can change a lot in an hour. Let the LFS know that you'll be traveling an hour and ask them if they have a small styrofoam box to put the bag in. It's not totally necessary but wouldn't hurt.

 

[Bent]

You have 30min to get the animals in once you open the bag. How people drop acclimate animals for 2+ hours without killing them is beyond me.

Float the bags for about a half hour or so to match temps.
Open the bag, take your refract and check the SG.
Do the same with your QT. Then adjust the QT SG to match the bag.
Net the animals and put them in QT.
Let them get accumulated for a week or so and get them eating well. Watch for Signs of disease at this point.
After they are eating and settled for 7 days, remove any carbon and dose the tank with some prazi pro. I do 10 days. Dose on day 1 and day 5. Then on day 10 put the carbon back in to take the meds out.
Finish up with a metronidazole regimine.
I like to leave them an extra 7 days after the metronidazole is over to make sure they are still eating well.
Adjust the QT temp and SG to match the display, net the animals and put them in the display.

The easiest way to match the SG of the display is like so:
Typically the SG of the display is higher than the QT. Instead of adding salt to raise it, I just let the tank evaporate during my last few days of observation until the SG matches the DT.

I dunno if this is 100% correct, but that's how I do it and so far it hasn't failed me.

 

[ichthyogeek]

Eeyore-Is there a problem with me using a utility pump? I have an Aqueon rated for either 500 or 950 gph, but that felt too powerful for me to use...I'll check for the ammonia alert badge when I get to the LFS. Guess I'll be mixing saltwater today to get the tank ready.

Bent-why do I need to treat prophylactically? I'll probably run carbon in the system to help get rid of gelbstoff, but I don't see any reason to dose medications unless they're absolutely needed. I've never treated my fish with anything except salt on my freshwater fish to rid them of ich. With the exception of killer whales, I've never heard of captive animals being given medications prophylactically. Wouldn't this just result in medication-resistant diseases/parasites?

 

[CStrickland]

Prophylactic medication is very common. I do a variation on this qt protocol http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/quarantining-marine-fish-made-simple
A lot of people are doing ttm instead of copper now, especially with more delicate stock.

It's a personal choice, but imo as a noob it's better to pick some established technique and follow it all the way through. It's going to be a few years before I really have my head around diseases, so I'm not comfortable mix n matching or getting creative.

 

[Irishman360]

I bring my refractometer to my LFS to test the salinity. Be surprised on how often they are off. My LFS has been off of what they have been saying by .003-.005 sometimes.

 

[Isaacs55]

Prophylactic medication is very common. I do a variation on this qt protocol http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/quarantining-marine-fish-made-simple
A lot of people are doing ttm instead of copper now, especially with more delicate stock.

It's a personal choice, but imo as a noob it's better to pick some established technique and follow it all the way through. It's going to be a few years before I really have my head around diseases, so I'm not comfortable mix n matching or getting creative.

I agree. TTM is best if you don't want to introduce copper in any of your tanks or equipment. I do TTM and then 4 weeks QT to make my fish fat and make sure they are eating and healthy.

I bring my refractometer to my LFS to test the salinity. Be surprised on how often they are off. My LFS has been off of what they have been saying by .003-.005 sometimes.

+1 very good idea when purchasing from multiple tanks in a LFS. Some stores don't keep all their tanks the same specific gravity

 

[Bent]

Eeyore-Is there a problem with me using a utility pump? I have an Aqueon rated for either 500 or 950 gph, but that felt too powerful for me to use...I'll check for the ammonia alert badge when I get to the LFS. Guess I'll be mixing saltwater today to get the tank ready.

Bent-why do I need to treat prophylactically? I'll probably run carbon in the system to help get rid of gelbstoff, but I don't see any reason to dose medications unless they're absolutely needed. I've never treated my fish with anything except salt on my freshwater fish to rid them of ich. With the exception of killer whales, I've never heard of captive animals being given medications prophylactically. Wouldn't this just result in medication-resistant diseases/parasites?

Long term antibiotic treatments in a large populous would indeed result in bacterial resistance over time. But the amount of fish we treat compared with the oceanic population is minuscule if not non-existent.

Intestinal parasites and other diseases are a real threat. Prazi-pro and metronidazole will ensure that most of these will not make it to a system you have have spent thousands of dollars on.

The treatments for most of these diseases are not stressful to the fish at all. Less so than some other treatments.

I was bitten by the "looks ok to me" routine in the butt one too many times in the past.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure brah.

 

[ichthyogeek]

Welp, I got them in, and I must say, they're definitely healthier than the last trio I bought. I should quarantine more often! But now...I have problems feeding them.
I've put them on a diet of BBS, both freshly hatched and enriched post-hatch, as well as Instant (by ocean nutrition). They seem to be doing well on that, but I'm worried that they'll not get enough nutrition, since BBS is so small, and the fish are so big (I'd posit around 1.5 inches right now). I was mainly looking for a feeding response, which all three are currently showing...but it's only when I'm far away from the tank when all three come out and start gobbling up the shrimp. I've also offered Rod's fish-only blend, and that seems to be slightly loved as well. I'm not even going to start on the pellets until I can sex the guys using the vent method. Any advice on getting these guys to eat? I really wish I could get some blackworms in, but those are out of the question (no viable sources, and parents won't let me order "just" blackworms).