*FISH EXPERTS* Powder Blue Unidentified disease?

[westwind1124]

My powder blue has come down with what ever this is. Its fortunately only been in the QT so treatment should be easy once I figure out what it is. When I purchased it, everything looked good. My normal QT procedure is 4 weeks with Cupramine copper, then 1 week of Para-Guard, finish up with 1 week of Prazi-Pro. This guy has been in QT for a lil over 2 weeks with copper at prescribed dosage. This has developed in the last few days, so copper doesn't seem to have an affect on it. Hes still eating algea sheets fine, reluctant to eat pellets and seems to pick at frozen mysis. Numbers are fine in the QT, 9DKh, 450 Ca, 1300 Mg, Nitrite/Nitrates 0, Ammonia 0, PH 8.0, Salinity 1.024, and lastly Temp 77. Not sure what this is as I haven't seen it before. Im currently suspect of a bacteria of some sort. Thoughts anyone.

 

[HumbleFish]

Looks like a pretty nasty bacterial infection; I fear gram negative (usually fatal).

I would start antibiotic treatment ASAP. Furan-2 or whatever wide spectrum antibiotic you can find. You can safely mix antibiotics w/copper.

 

[westwind1124]

I have Furan 2 but what concerns me is that it will wipe out the my beneficial bacteria too. I really like the Para-Guard since it won't do that. I can't get Para-Guard for another 2 days yet though. curious to know if thats too long since he's acting perfectly normal otherwise?

 

[reeferstace]

I would not be concerned about beneficial bacteria in a QT tank. That fish needs treatment asap.

 

[Mrscribbled]

Furan-2 won't destroy all beneficial bacteria. The one that converts ammonia to nitrate won't be effected. I don't consider Para Gaurd an antibiotic in any shape or form, have tried the product with no avail period.. If this is a Gram Neg bacterium, treatment is needed pronto.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I have Furan 2 but what concerns me is that it will wipe out the my beneficial bacteria too. I really like the Para-Guard since it won't do that. I can't get Para-Guard for another 2 days yet though. curious to know if thats too long since he's acting perfectly normal otherwise?

Para-Guard is not an antibiotic and will do nothing for a bacterial infection. Most of the antibiotics we use will not wipe out a bio-filter. Just curious, what do you use the para-Guard for?

EDIT: I guess MrScribbled & I were typing at the same time; so his excellent advice posted ahead of mine. You guys that can type with more than 3 fingers have it made.

 

[HumbleFish]

I have Furan 2 but what concerns me is that it will wipe out the my beneficial bacteria too. I really like the Para-Guard since it won't do that. I can't get Para-Guard for another 2 days yet though. curious to know if thats too long since he's acting perfectly normal otherwise?

Antibiotics, such as those contained in Furan-2, will not completely decimate your nitrifying bacteria; not to the point where you should see an ammonia spike anyway. Antibiotics can, however, cause negative interaction with corals/inverts.

I looked up Seachem ParaGuard; and the F&S website says it, "employs a proprietary, synergistic blend of aldehydes, malachite green, and fish protective polymers". I have no idea how any of that is beneficial for a fish suffering from a bacterial infection, but it may be along the same lines of "herbal remedies" which help boost a fish's natural immune system.

Hopefully I'm wrong, and the fish is only suffering from a gram positive bacterial infection (much more manageable than a gram negative).

 

[snorvich]

Furan-2 won't destroy all beneficial bacteria. The one that converts ammonia to nitrate won't be effected. I don't consider Para Gaurd an antibiotic in any shape or form, have tried the product with no avail period.. If this is a Gram Neg bacterium, treatment is needed pronto.

This. Pictures are not clear enough for me, however.

 

[westwind1124]

Well, as far as pics go, the little critter just won't let me get anything better. I usually use the Para-Guard in my normal QT process. Its gentler than Furan and normally its not being used to treat an outbreak like this. I have used 4 weeks copper, then 1 week Para, then 1 week PraziPro as my normal regiment for QT of new fish. I have had really good luck thus far with this regiment. As far as this particular issue, I have just not seen before. I have used Para-Guard with success on other ailments. That being said I know that Para-Guard does not treat "internal" bacterial infections, which is why I was asking for advice here, since I have not encountered this before. Since I haven't seen it, I was not sure how to tackle it. But the universal consensus here here seems to be Furan, which I started about an hour ago.

 

[HumbleFish]

Well, as far as pics go, the little critter just won't let me get anything better. I usually use the Para-Guard in my normal QT process. Its gentler than Furan and normally its not being used to treat an outbreak like this. I have used 4 weeks copper, then 1 week Para, then 1 week PraziPro as my normal regiment for QT of new fish. I have had really good luck thus far with this regiment. As far as this particular issue, I have just not seen before. I have used Para-Guard with success on other ailments. That being said I know that Para-Guard does not treat "internal" bacterial infections, which is why I was asking for advice here, since I have not encountered this before. Since I haven't seen it, I was not sure how to tackle it. But the universal consensus here here seems to be Furan, which I started about an hour ago.

Your fears about Furan are well founded... IME it can be harsh on certain fish. So, sometimes it's hard to say if it was the infection or antibiotics which killed the fish. But the thing is Furan-2 is so widely available it seems; Petco/smart seem to usually have it. There are other wide spectrum antibiotic meds available: Kanaplex, Maracyn Plus and the one I'm most fascinated by, Nitrofuracin Green Powder. But all those normally have to be ordered off the Internet (unless you live in an area with good LFS), and usually a fish with a gram negative infection doesn't have that kind of time. And most people who post on this fish disease forum tend not to have a "fish medicine cabinet" where they stock essential meds.

For gram positive, erythromycin is a good choice; mild and usually widely available.

 

[westwind1124]

Yeah, I personally try to keep a stock med cabinet if you will. Hopefully you don't but you never know when you might need something. I am hopeful on this guy since he has made it this far. I am going to run with the furan treatment for now, and then follow it up with a para-guard treatment. After these I will finish up with my usual QT process of Prazi-Pro last. Fingers crossed that he holds together and makes a recovery. Its a bum deal but I am glad he atleast never made it to the DT to spread what ever this is to other fish.

 

[westwind1124]

OK, here's the update. I have finished the Furan 2 treatment. He is showing improvement in all facets except the spots are still there. He seems completely healthy other wise. Swims around the whole tank like normal, eats like a hog, although he still won't touch pellets. I see no issues other than those spots don't seem to be waning. Any thoughts.

 

[alprazo]

If the fish is doing better. The spots are likely post inflammatory hyper or hypo pigmentation. They should slowly improve.