Fish Keep Dying....Restarting the tank

[Prince4li]

Hey Forum.
So I was wondering if you guys can help me out......

I started a 75 gallon saltwater tank back in February.
cycled the tank for 2 months before adding fish,
This is the equipment i have:
BRS RO/DI unit. i only use RO/Di water
I have a 25 gallon sump
2 Hydro Koralia Wavemaker Pumps
Sicche return pump
Reef Octopus protein skimmer
Growing refuguim w/live rock and live sand (i can see the bugs moving around in there)
Ehiem Jager Heater,
T5 high output lamp fixture from coralife, and blue LED modules i stuck on there that i use for the night time.
65 lbs of Arag Alive black Hawaiian sand, 65 lbs of live Pukani Live rock.

Fish stock:
Cleaner Shrim/Coral Banded Shrimp
5 Chromis
2 Tru Percula Clowns
Diamond Goby
Royal Gramma,
Fire Flies
and a bunch of snails and hermit crabs

My problem is that i have my fish dying 2 days after i get them from my LFS.
I have taken water samples to 4 different store in my area, and they all say my water parameters are in check. salinty is 1.023, no Ammonia no Nitrates nothing to explain why my fish die so ive taken all the living fish out, and sent them back to my LFS and im restarting my tank. Drying my live rock and last night i filled up my tank with new RODI water and salt.

Can i get some advice on what to do the second time around? ive spent quite a bit of money on this hobby, but i am discouraged cause of the fish loss....
please help

 

[thax]

What where they dieing like? Any bumps or redness or anything like that rapid breathing? When you restart your tank qt every thing you probably had a sick fish that infected your others.

 

[biomek]

if all of your fish keep dying within 2 days and your LFS claim your water parameters are good, my guess is something going on with your acclimation and/or QT procedures. What are you doing in that aspect?

 

[swclown]

Are you finding dead fish or are they disappearing?

 

[Prince4li]

I dont see any red bumps on any bodies, some chromis did rapid breathing, sitting in the corner.

I float the bag for about 10-15 min. then add a cup of aquarium water in the bag ever 10 min. i do that 3 maybe 4 times. and release the fish into the tank without adding the bag water.

I see the dead fish body, except for the one clown who died, never found the body (my guess is that my cleaning crew got it.)

And i have all the testing kits, i have the reef master kit, and saltwater kit. so i know my water parameters are good, i get a second opinion from the LFS, so i know if they are doing accurate tests too.

 

[Prince4li]

Ive been told by my LFS and i dont know if that true or not that "firelies and chromis are weak fish and usually die quickly"

 

[snorvich]

Ok. Your quarantine protocol is non-existent and your acclimation process is deficient. First thing you need to do is develop a quarantine protocol (see tank transfer method) and next you need to be able to measure the SG of the transport water (from your LFS). Many/most LFS run a lower SG of 1.015-1.017. What that means is you will need to do one of two things:

+ create a quarantine tank that matches the SG of the LFS (or)
+ drip acclimate until SG in bag matches your tank SG

 

[uncleL]

ok second time around...... This is my process with all tanks I setup:
1. add sand, rock and water.
2. 1.025 salinity
3. Temp 79-80
4. Add Bacteria Dr. Tim's
5. Add 2 Small clowns's "Nemo"
6. Feed after 24hrs
7. After tank has cycled... about a week.
8 .Add some live rock 5lbs test water!!!
9. 1 week Add more live rock!!! after a week repeat!!
10. Skimmer is producing the gunk!? good to go!
I added live rock 1 week before I added fish "Small"

 

[gone fishin]

Until you know why your fish are dying I really see no value in starting over. Good luck though.

 

[Prince4li]

Okay, so this is what I did yesterday,
I removed all the rocks to let to dry and I will reuse later..
I did a 70% water change (no fish at the moment)
I left the sand bed alone, so to retain the beneficial bacteria
I added extra salt my salinity is at 1.027
I also left the Fuge alone, so I can save my pods and alge that's grown in there.
Im planning on letting this run for about 3-4 weeks with nothing in the tank except the sand.
Should I add the 2 clowns? or leave it without fish?

 

[snorvich]

Okay, so this is what I did yesterday,
I removed all the rocks to let to dry and I will reuse later..
I did a 70% water change (no fish at the moment)
I left the sand bed alone, so to retain the beneficial bacteria
I added extra salt my salinity is at 1.027
I also left the Fuge alone, so I can save my pods and alge that's grown in there.
Im planning on letting this run for about 3-4 weeks with nothing in the tank except the sand.
Should I add the 2 clowns? or leave it without fish?

No Fish. If the tank is cycled, you can start with a clean up crew.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

1.027 is too high. Seawater is 1.026 and you should be between 1.024 and 1.026. I'd pull some water and add RODI water until it comes down.

UncleL NEVER cycle a tank with live fish. NEVER!!!!! You are very much so hurting them. Can clowns or damsels cycle a tank, sure they can, but it's not a cool way to do it :hammer:

 

[Prince4li]

I actually rechecked the salinity, and it was nowhere near that high. barely 1.021 even. so added salt to make it around 1.023 - 1.024

 

[Mishri]

ok second time around...... This is my process with all tanks I setup:
1. add sand, rock and water.
2. 1.025 salinity
3. Temp 79-80
4. Add Bacteria Dr. Tim's
5. Add 2 Small clowns's "Nemo"
6. Feed after 24hrs
7. After tank has cycled... about a week.
8 .Add some live rock 5lbs test water!!!
9. 1 week Add more live rock!!! after a week repeat!!
10. Skimmer is producing the gunk!? good to go!
I added live rock 1 week before I added fish "Small"

I don't understand the purpose of adding live rock later. Add it from the start, get the good stuff growing right away. Most of my tanks I started with 100% live rock. For the first time ever I went with dry rock a few months ago in my 75 gallon and added live rock from my 40 gallon once the 75 gallon had cycled(ammonia dropped to 0). much slower process of establishing all the critters.. I definitely don't like it as well, but it is cheaper.


@Dkuhlmann he is using bacteria, so probably not an issue, as long as he watches the ammonia levels. I'm sure you don't go on rants when someone slaps an ammonia badge on the QT tank.. Either test multiple times a day or get an alert badge... you can cycle a tank with fish, it's easier not to.

 

[biomek]

Okay, so this is what I did yesterday...I added extra salt my salinity is at 1.027

rechecked the salinity, and it was nowhere near that high. barely 1.021 even. so added salt to make it around 1.023 - 1.024

what are you using to check your salinity? sounds like you're just adding salt at random without knowing what your true reading really is. No offense but it makes me think all of this might be due to improper salinity acclimation without really knowing what the variance from bag to DT is.

On the flipside since you haven't QT'd any of these fish that have died in your DT, leaving it fallow for 3-4 weeks is very probably pointless without understanding the cause of death. If the salinity matching isn't your issue, I'd recommend going full 72 days fallow at the very least.

 

[Mishri]

Fish actually do well(sometimes better) with lower salinity levels, so leaving it at 1.021 would have been fine.

But as biomek said, why are you getting these different readings? You might want to get a good refractometer and make sure it's calibrated with calibration solution. Salinity shouldn't change like that.

and as snorvich said, the ideal way to handle this is have you quarantine tank at a low salinity, then match it to whatever the fish come in. Quarantine tanks end up costing way less than the fish you get. Many people like to use a 20L, a heater, a HOB filter, and some pvc or plastic things for your fish to hide in/behind. (I like to throw in a couple of plastic plants).. you can get all of that for under $100, and I'm sure you've spent more than that on fish already.

 

[Prince4li]

Biomek, I am using a refractometer and I have calibrated my refractometer with solution it came with. I know not just randomly throw in salt into the tank.
I just set up a new QT tank today. Its a 29 gallon tank I took out of storage. I'm not new to fish keeping I know about proper cycling and acclimation. But I don't think my fish died due to the salinity levels because not only did I check them (with a refractomer) so did 4 different LFS. My ammonia and nitrites are at 0. so I know the tank is cycled.

 

[Prince4li]

Mishri, Im thinking some hitchhiker was on the live rock. that's why I took it all out to let it dry and start with fresh rock. I left my sandbed alone with about 20% original water, and filled up 80% with new water.

 

[blondetang]

My suggestion:
With your DT, make sure your salinity is 1.025, and feed your empty tank fish food to keep the nitrogen cycle going and your macro algae growing. In three weeks, it should be done, and your Nitrates may rise.

Wait to put any fish in your QT. It will need to cycle also.

In about three weeks, add fish to your QT, and do water changes as needed. QT for a month, by this time your DT should be very stable.

Drip acclamate them into the DT.

It is a slow process but works all of the time for me.

 

[Sk8r]

Let me remind all members to avoid personal remarks and charged words in their posts. Keep it friendly, folks, even the arguments.