Fish Twitching

[kreativemike]

Hey guys, I bought two fishes (Spotband Butterfly and Yellow Eye Kole Tang) from LiveAquaria.com this thursday, they came in on Friday and I acclimated them to my Quarantine Tank that afternoon. 20 gallon long. Everything looked fine, so on Friday, I started dosing Cupramine.

Saturday, I noticed, they were twitching. They haven't been eating since entering my QT. Ironically, my last Kole Tang that was in QT died and when it did, prior too, it was twitching really bad. I was told from LiveAquaria that it could be stress and that is causing the abnormal behavior.

Sunday, I did the second dose of Cupramine but they still have not been eating and are still twitching. I do not want to lose these fishes. Can someone tell me what it might be? There are no visible signs of a parasite. No white spots or black spots, so I am not sure if Cupramine should be being used now. I currently have Cupramine and Prazipro as medications ... Also, when using cupramine, how exactly does dosage goes after the second dosage? Is it every day or every other day.

The water parameters are: SAL = 1.023, PH = 8.0, AM = 0, NI = 0, NA = 0

 

[HumbleFish]

IME; twitching can mean something is bothering their gills. Could be Ich, could be gill flukes. The latter requires Prazipro treatment, but it's best not to mix Prazi w/copper. However, I have done it in a pinch with no ill effects.

 

[kreativemike]

You say you have used prazipro and copper with a pinch - could you elaborate how you have done this? I too, would like to try and try to eradicate this issue, I do not want to lose the fishes or have the situation worsen.

 

[HumbleFish]

You say you have used prazipro and copper with a pinch - could you elaborate how you have done this? I too, would like to try and try to eradicate this issue, I do not want to lose the fishes or have the situation worsen.

I treated w/Prazi @ 1 teaspoon per 20 gals, waited 5 days, did a 25% WC and then dosed again. 5 days later I did another 25% WC. It usually takes two rounds of Prazi to completely eradicate flukes and the "next generation" from any eggs left behind. The WCs are to remove some of the toxins that were released from the dying flukes. You will also need to re-dose the appropriate amount of Cupramine each time you do a WC to maintain your copper level.

The "danger" is mixing copper can reduce praziquantel's overall effectiveness. So, if you were sure these fish had flukes I would recommend removing all of the copper beforehand. But the downside is if the twitching is actually being caused by Ich then you are then delaying treatment for that. So, it's a quagmire.

The only way to confirm whether or not these fish are being afflicted by flukes is to perform a f/w dip. Have you ever done that before?

 

[Shan69743]

good to know. i've lost a few fish before that where doing this.

 

[kreativemike]

Yes, I have done a FW dip before. And it is good to know about how you mix the Prazi with the Cupramine ... So do you recommend I FW dip first before using the Prazipro? And being that I dosed the second dosage of copper yesterday .. should i do the WC before doing the prazipro and Cupramine together?

Last time I did the FW dip - I did not see anything fall off the fish, maybe because the bucket was white and it was not a clear bowl.

 

[HumbleFish]

It's best to do the f/w dip in a clear glass bowl. Make sure temp/pH match the water the fish is coming out of. Do the f/w dip for no more than 5 mins (I would dip the more sturdy tang, not the butterfly). If the tang has flukes, you will see tiny white things pour out of his gills and settle to the bottom after the 2-3 min mark. That is how you will know for sure whether or not the tang has flukes and requires Prazi treatment. And if the tang has flukes, then the butterfly probably has them too.

 

[kreativemike]

Thanks! I will definitely do the FW dip first the tang in a clear glass bowl ... if I see anything pour out of his and settle to the floor, I will confirm that is flukes and will begin the treatment of prazi and cupramine ... just to check, if stuff do fall from its gills in the 5 mins ... should i do the WC then redose cupramine and include the prazipro? Or should i just add the prazi to the already dosed water with cupramine ...

Thank You again for your help.

 

[kreativemike]

just out of curiosity, why should I only dip the tang and not the butterfly. It seems that the butterfly is twitching more though

 

[HumbleFish]

You can dip both; but f/w dips can be stressful on a fish so my rationale is the tang would hold up better than a more delicate butterfly. A month or so ago I performed a f/w dip on a Moorish Idol (about as delicate as a butterfly IMO), and had to hold him in place for over an hour afterwards because he couldn't regain his equilibrium once put back in s/w. Never had that problem with a tang before. The worst they do is lay on the bottom and "play dead" during the f/w dip.

If either one has flukes, both will need to be treated with 2 rounds of Prazi since they share water. And if you do confirm flukes, I would just abandon Cupramine treatment (for now) and knock out the flukes first.

 

[kreativemike]

Hey, thanks - I did a fw for 6 mins and for the first time I seen the parasites fall out from the gills! It was like a milky brown color ... I am going to do a big water change, and start the Prazipro treatment .. so I wont have to dip the Spotband Butterfly ...

Thanks