Fist Salt Tank - Thoughts and Suggestions Please

[Swipular]

Hello everyone:

I would really appreciate your input and suggests on my fish list.

A little background might help to start. I've had a freshwater tank for over 10 years. Earlier this year my 12-year-old daughter and I went scuba diving in Bora Bora. We are not certified divers but went with the ships dive team. Since we are not certified the dives were of course fairly limited but we still got to see some amazing sea life.

After this, my daughter asked if we could set up a saltwater tank. I told her yes and that she could pick the fish but that she would have to earn them via good grades. So at the end of each quarter if she is on the B honor roll she can have 1 fish and if she makes the A honor roll she can have two. We are halfway through the first quarter and it looks like she is going to make the A honor roll for the first quarter.

So the fish list is mainly hers with a couple thrown in by me. We, of course, do not want to create an unfriendly or hostile environment for anyone so if changes need to be made for the happiness of the tank then that's what we will do.

Again this is my first saltwater tank but this is what I have so far.

- 90-gallon display tank
- 440w of VHO lights - had this from another tank will probably replace with LED's at some point
- Sump with another 10 gallons of water
- 40 pounds of dead rock (in display)
- 35 pounds of live rock (in display)
- MarinePure block and balls (in sump)
- Skimmer in sump
- AWC system doing 2% water change a day
- ATO system

The tank is cycled and has been running for about 2 months now.

Currently in the tank is a few small hermit crabs, an emerald crab and a mix of about 60 snails.

I would also like to add some SPS in the future but thinking I should start with some mushrooms or something else easy.

1. Yellow Watchman Goby - This is for me, I just think they are cool. Would really like to pair it with a shrimp.

2. Clownfish - This is for me also. It's just me but I think a saltwater tank needs clownfish. These should be in pairs I believe. I like the Domino Clownfish and the Midnight Clownfish but would also be just as happy with an Ocellaris Clownfish

3. Longhorn Cowfish - her favorite, she would really like to add this first.

4. Flame Fairy Wrasse - Her second favorite.

5. Bristletooth Kole Tang - She likes several of these so we are open to suggestions if one of these will get along with the other tank mates better.

6. Miniatus Grouper

7. Goldflake Angelfish

8. Leopard Wrasse - would prefer a

9. Lawnmower blenny

10. Sally Lightfoot Crab

11. Axilspot Hogfish

12. Three Spot Domino Damselfish

Thank you so much for your input and suggestions!

Kenny

 

[thegrun]

Here are a few comments on your fish selection:
-12 fish would be on the uppermost limit to how many fish I would keep in a 90 gallon tank, you may want to trim the total down a little.
-The Cowfish needs a tank at least twice the size of yours, they get big. They are also difficult to care for (there skin is poisonous), hard to get them to eat and they will release a poison into the water when frightened that will kill all the other fish in your tank.
-Miniatus Groupers also get big in a hurry but you may be able to keep a small one for a year or so. They are VERY aggressive and will eat any fish that will fit into it's mouth, probably best not to add one as some of the other fish on your list are likely to end up as a meal.
-Leopard Wrasse are very difficult to keep alive initially, but if you can get them to live 4 months or so they generally do well. Best kept in a group of 3 or more, they need a deep sand bed to sleep in.
-Three Spot Domino Damselfish get big, ugly and very nasty in a hurry, save yourself some grief and pass on the Damsel.
I hate to give you bad news on so many of the fish you were interested in, but better now than after they are in your tank. Best of luck!

 

[krs1102]

Some of these fish will work well- but there are a few flags. The cowfish and the grouper can both get huge and will outgrow your tank. Some people but them small and hope that they will figure something out later, but unless you have plans for a tank at least triple the size you have, I wouldn't even go there. Check out a vendor like LiveAquaria and the minimum tank sizes for the fish you're looking at.

 

[Joshua I.]

Everything looks good except for the Miniatus Grouper and the cow fish will get to big, and while the sally light foot crab is really cool and I never had one I have heard when they get bigger they may attack fish. Also the damselfish might be to aggressive especially for the leopard wrasse. Also the leopard wrasse make sure is eating before you buy it I have one know and he is doing fine I would also make him one of the first additions in the tank.

 

[Swipular]

-12 fish would be on the uppermost limit to how many fish I would keep in a 90 gallon tank, you may want to trim the total down a little.

Yes, I agree 12 is a lot. This would be an ultimate wishlist but we are expecting to have to pair it down and make some changes.

-The Cowfish needs a tank at least twice the size of yours, they get big. They are also difficult to care for (there skin is poisonous), hard to get them to eat and they will release a poison into the water when frightened that will kill all the other fish in your tank.

I did know about the poison but was reading that if you add them early on so they can establish themselves they usually do ok. I, of course, would be hoping for the best possible outcome.

I did not realize the size or at least I missed that when I was reading about them. Do you have any idea how long they take to grow to full size? I am hoping to get a larger tank at some point but for now, I am still learning all the ins and outs.

-Miniatus Groupers also get big in a hurry but you may be able to keep a small one for a year or so. They are VERY aggressive and will eat any fish that will fit into it's mouth, probably best not to add one as some of the other fish on your list are likely to end up as a meal.

I did not realize how aggressive these were. Bet to cut the Miniatus Grouper from the list I suppose.

-Leopard Wrasse are very difficult to keep alive initially, but if you can get them to live 4 months or so they generally do well. Best kept in a group of 3 or more, they need a deep sand bed to sleep in.

I think she would be open to another wrasse. She likes several of them but some get rather large and aggressive. Do you have a replacement wrasse suggestion?

-Three Spot Domino Damselfish get big, ugly and very nasty in a hurry, save yourself some grief and pass on the Damsel.

This is not high on her wish list so I'll just cut it out too.

I hate to give you bad news on so many of the fish you were interested in, but better now than after they are in your tank. Best of luck!

Thank you for your input. As I said I'm very new to this and trying to learn as I go. I would rather know in advance and get a different set of fish. I have no interest in getting a fish just have it be unhappy and eventually die.

 

[Swipular]

Some of these fish will work well- but there are a few flags. The cowfish and the grouper can both get huge and will outgrow your tank. Some people but them small and hope that they will figure something out later, but unless you have plans for a tank at least triple the size you have, I wouldn't even go there. Check out a vendor like LiveAquaria and the minimum tank sizes for the fish you're looking at.

The grouper I know we can pass on.

Any idea what the growth rate of the cowfish might be?

I do intend to get a larger tank at some point once I have a better understanding of what I'm doing but I think that it will probably be a year at least before I do that.

 

[Swipular]

-12 fish would be on the uppermost limit to how many fish I would keep in a 90 gallon tank, you may want to trim the total down a little.

Yes, I agree 12 is a lot. This would be an ultimate wishlist but we are expecting to have to pair it down and make some changes.

-The Cowfish needs a tank at least twice the size of yours, they get big. They are also difficult to care for (there skin is poisonous), hard to get them to eat and they will release a poison into the water when frightened that will kill all the other fish in your tank.

I did know about the poison but was reading that if you add them early on so they can establish themselves they usually do ok. I, of course, would be hoping for the best possible outcome.

I did not realize the size or at least I missed that when I was reading about them. Do you have any idea how long they take to grow to full size? I am hoping to get a larger tank at some point but for now, I am still learning all the ins and outs.

-Miniatus Groupers also get big in a hurry but you may be able to keep a small one for a year or so. They are VERY aggressive and will eat any fish that will fit into it's mouth, probably best not to add one as some of the other fish on your list are likely to end up as a meal.

I did not realize how aggressive these were. Bet to cut the Miniatus Grouper from the list I suppose.

-Leopard Wrasse are very difficult to keep alive initially, but if you can get them to live 4 months or so they generally do well. Best kept in a group of 3 or more, they need a deep sand bed to sleep in.

I think she would be open to another wrasse. She likes several of them but some get rather large and aggressive. Do you have a replacement wrasse suggestion?

-Three Spot Domino Damselfish get big, ugly and very nasty in a hurry, save yourself some grief and pass on the Damsel.

This is not high on her wish list so I'll just cut it out too.

I hate to give you bad news on so many of the fish you were interested in, but better now than after they are in your tank. Best of luck!

Thank you for your input. As I said I'm very new to this and trying to learn as I go. I would rather know in advance and get a different set of fish. I have no interest in getting a fish just have it be unhappy and eventually die.

 

[krs1102]

The cowfish grows pretty quickly, from what I have read- doubles in size in less than a year (will keep growing until they are 18 inches +). They are also, again from what I have read, pigs when it comes to feeding. So they will create a lot of waste and if your system isn't large enough to deal with it, that could be an issue as well. Finally, when stressed, they can nuke the tank.
When you say you're going to upgrade, are you thinking of upgrading to 250+ gallons? Because that's really the minimum for those guys. I was a bit disappointed to hear that myself, because I think they're awesome guys with a lot of personality, but my 125 is too small and I don't have room for (or the desire to maintain) a 250/300 gallon tank (and my wife would flip!)

 

[Swipular]

Upgrading to a 250 was exactly what I was thinking. I would not mind larger but 250 seems to be the largest size readily available used in my area. I would prefer to pick up a used tank if possible since it would be so much cheaper.

I'm not even sure if I can have a larger tank yet. I live in a raised house so I would want someone to look at the support structure before moving forward with that.

I, of course, have not mentioned this to my wife.

 

[Swipular]

I'm not bothered by the "bad news" on some of the fish.

I really appreciate all the input.

I would much rather have happy surviving fish than getting fish that are going to be unhappy or not get along.

In the end, we just want a beautiful tank that we can enjoy watching that the fish will hopefully enjoy also.

The cowfish is going to the be hardest to steer her away from, it's the fish she wanted the most.

The grouper as I said is not a big deal and I think I'll avoid the damsels since they sound like troublemakers.

We really like the look of many of the wrasse's but some get pretty big and some are just downright mean. I would like to find a wrasse that is fairly hardy and will get along with the other fish.

My LFS has a moon wrasse that kills everything it comes in contact with.

Thanks again for all the input.

 

[FortyFour]

There are lots of good hardy wrasses out there that will be easier than the leopard. Try looking at a melenarus.

Highly likely the kole tang will show aggression towards the lawnmower blenny in that sized tank since they compete for the same food. Might not see the blenny too much.

Watchman goby is a great choice.

Kole tang is a great choice but it’s recommended you stick to 1 tang in that sized tank.

Be aware that the hogfish will change coloration as it ages and will not look anything like what I think you have in mind.

Be careful with the order you add these fish to your tank. You’ll want to add the most aggressive fish last. It can make or break your experience in this hobby.

Watch out for the hermits killing your snails. It’s inevitable that they will want to kill them for their shells. For this reason some will pick either snails or hermits but not both.

BRS tv has some good videos on youtube that I wish I knew about when I first started the hobby. Good luck!

 

[Swipular]

That Melenarus Wrasseis pretty. I had no idea they would bury themselves in the sand.

Rather than the Kole Tang, what are your thoughts on a mimic lemon peel tang?

I've been watching LOTS of brstv and other channels. They have been very helpful but I still have a lot to learn.

 

[devimik]

As others have said - avoid the Cowfish, even if you keep it until it gets too big, if it feels like it's being attacked, it will release poison in the water that could kill your other fish. The grouper will get too big and eat other fish as was mentioned.

I'd agree on avoiding the Leopard Wrasse. Try a Red Head Solon Fairy Wrasse, or a Melenarus, or the Flame she wants.

I also agree that a Kole, or any other like a Kole will not get along with a Lawnmower Blenny - they both feed on algae and compete, so the Kole will likely (could - not guaranteed) kill the Blenny. That's what happened to mine.

The Goldflake will probably outgrow your 90 too. I have a Coral Beauty, but any dwarf angel would probably work.

Good luck with the stocking.

 

[Crooked Reef]

I have a yellow tang and a lawnmower blenny in my 90 for over a year now. No aggression to eachother at all. I have two gourmet grazers of nori in the tank a day.

Instead of the cowfish, what about a valentini puffer or a mimic saddle fish. The mimic is actually a filefish that takes on the appearance of the velentini. It’s not really the same fish as a cowfish, but somewhat similar body styles and it is interesting.

 

[Swipular]

OK Guys, been doing some research based on your suggestions and talked with my daughter.

Below is her updated fish list. If there are any problems please let me know. I'm trying to work out now what order to add them in. I believe the Tang and Angelfish would need to be added last but other than that does the order matter for the other fish?

We already have a watchman goby and 2 Mightnight Clownfish in the tank. I know the clownfish might get aggressive as some point.

Thanks again for all your help!

Yellow Watchman Goby & pistol shrimp - already in tank
Midnight Clownfish x2 - already in tank
Saddle Valentini Puffer
Dusky Wrasse
Lawnmower blenny
Sally Lightfoot Crab
Axilspot Hogfish
Kole Tang
Coral Beauty Angelfish

 

[Crooked Reef]

I wouldn’t worry about the aggression from the clowns. They are a color variant of an occellaris. They may get somewhat aggressive when the mature and lay eggs, but they’re not going to try and run a four foot tank. I have a dusky wrasse and it is a pretty fish, just not colorful like a lot of the fairy and flasher wrasses. Because they are not as colorful they aren’t collected as much and may be hard to find. Live aquaria has them as difficult but this is not my experience with it. It eats everything that is fed to it and I only feed once a day. It will graze the rest of the day and may eat shrimp, though the pistol should not be an issue. Mine does attack any hermits shrimp or snails I add, but it is about 4” long. It also is more muted than you see pics on liveaquaria, the blue doesn’t stand out as much. A melanarus is very similar pattern wise but does have a little more color. Both are halichores species so behavior will be pretty similar. Just something to consider.

Actually the only issue I see with the stock list is unfortunately a fish I recommended. The puffer will eat hermits and probably kill the arrow crab as it gets bigger. The pistol will probably survive it due to the burrowing nature of it, but it may hide more instead of being out. They don’t get too big, but again something to consider.

 

[JGreiwe2]

Hey guys, I'm looking for advice/direction on what my next fish should be. I currently have a clown, sailfin tang, two-spot brissletooth tang, and a blue hippo tang in right now. its a 75 gallon reef tank and I'm looking for one last fish to reach my max! Please tell me what you think and some good ideas to consider!
Thank you!!