Flow rate / gph?

T

torrentexpress

New member
I have a 65 gallon live rock and fish tank. I have one green star poylp guy but I want more. Most of the initial coral I purchased have slowly wasted away in the last 10 months. I am new to this. So I am slowly gearing up and learning everything I can before give corals another try.

My question is this: I have 2 maxi jet-900 which give about 230 gph according to the box and I also have 1 emperor 400 which according to the box gives 400 gph. Now I know that those numbers can be inaccurate given different circumstances so lets move past that. I need to know if this is enough or too much gph? I read on drfoster site that 4x the tank gallons need to be turned over per hour. But on this site the majority of you guys are going WAY over that.

My current estimated gph is 860gph which is 13.2 x the 65 gallon tank. Obviously more than drfosters recomendations.

Without getting into to much details about "what exactly do I want to house in my tank" can someone give me some general guide lines to follow? Like, Between x and y gph?

Oh and I just purchased 2"Hydor FLO Rotating Deflectors" for my maxi jet 900s. Do you think this will help create better flow? Or is it just garbage?
 
The problem with MJ and other normal powerheads is they have a very narrow concentrated stream and you want a nice dispersed flow pattern. Newer pumps like Rio Seios, Hydor Koralias and Tunze NanoStreams are much better suited for flow in a coral tank. If you are wanting to keep soft corals like mushrooms, leathers and polyps 10 to 15x is sufficient. If you wan't LPS or SPS hard corals you are better off in the 30x range.

Personally I think you have more problems than just flow. Corals need very good stable water conditions. That means very low nitrates, no phosphates, a steady temperature and pH and good calcium and alkalinity for starters. They also need good lighting and plenty of surface area for bacterial growth which can be live rock and/or a sandbed. Flow is only one piece of the equation.
The Emperor 400 may be fine for a fish only system where nitrates are not really a concern but it leaves a lot to be desired for a coral system. You really don't even need any mechanical filtration at all, sponges and filter media can lead to nitrates. I would look at ways to provide the best water conditions first then look at movement and lighting.

THe Hydor Flo's are a neat device that help to vary flow patterns but they also cut down on the flow quite a bit, they are more suited for a nano tank in my mind.

What are your water parameters? Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, pH, temperature, salinity, calcium, alkalinity, phosphates, etc? What is your bio load as in how many fish, what sizes and what types? What else is in the tank? Do you have things like a protein skimmer, refugium with macroalgaes or a phosban reactor? Do you use RO or RO/DI water for top offs and changes?

The questions go on and on.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9924835#post9924835 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat

Personally I think you have more problems than just flow. Corals need very good stable water conditions. That means very low nitrates, no phosphates, a steady temperature and pH and good calcium and alkalinity for starters. They also need good lighting and plenty of surface area for bacterial growth which can be live rock and/or a sandbed. Flow is only one piece of the equation.
The Emperor 400 may be fine for a fish only system where nitrates are not really a concern but it leaves a lot to be desired for a coral system. You really don't even need any mechanical filtration at all, sponges and filter media can lead to nitrates. I would look at ways to provide the best water conditions first then look at movement and lighting.

What are your water parameters? Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, pH, temperature, salinity, calcium, alkalinity, phosphates, etc? What is your bio load as in how many fish, what sizes and what types? What else is in the tank? Do you have things like a protein skimmer, refugium with macroalgaes or a phosban reactor? Do you use RO or RO/DI water for top offs and changes?

The questions go on and on.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your reply. So I guess what your answer is, yes you need a lot of flow...way more than drfoster suggests.

Ok so fine here is the laundry list of what I know and do.
first of my tank specs are below all my posts.
I do 5-10 gallon water change every 7 days.
I top off with ro everyday
I have (not all ) but an extensive testing kit. and I get my water tested at the local fish store every week(when i get my ro and salt water)
My water quality is near perfect all the time/ every time
I run my lights on a 12 hr actinic 8 hr daylight timer
I use purple up every day
I just started the supplement guide for garf bulletproof reef tank guide (a week now)
My temp is at 78 -79
I do not own a protein skimmer
I do not use carbon
I use phosban when needed ( I have no phosphates)
I clean out the floss every 2 weeks and replace every month.
Im sure there is more I cant think of at the moment
-----------------------------
Having had all my corals die I hit the books and I have over come the learning curve. I know what needs to be done. I dont have a refugium or a protein skimmer or a wet dry or a phos reactor, I dont have a huge supplement regiment. All that takes time and money which eventually I will get around to but I do know this. Keeping corals can be down and is done without all of this fancy stuff. And I am not going to wait until I get this stuff to start. One question at a time you know. So thanks for the flow answer.

Right now I have the emp 400 (which you know) and the 2 MJ 900s (230gph)
Are at opposite ends of the tanks back wall. they are pointed so that each stream hits one another creating "turbulent" flow. do You think there are any adapters Other than the hydro flos that would create a better flow than the one I described?
 
Some people love thos FLO's so I would give them a try, why not.

Aside from that, I know you only want to discuss flow but ... Your floss filter media, if you are going to use it, its cheap, why not just replace for new 2 X per week. That will keep it from becoming a detritus trap. Also, I would consider a protein skimmer. Maybe make that your first investment in updating your set-up. Any one of them is better than none except for maybe a few of the really cheap, crappy ones. If you decide to go with one, there are lost of people here that can suggest the best bang for the buck skimmers. You could use a hang on back skimmer without having to change anything else out in your system.

I know you only wanted to discuss flow, so dont get defiant, just a couple of basic suggestions. Not trying to cram high tech and expensive down your throat. Just want to help.
 
I use no mechanical filtration and never have in both my 100G with a 30G sump and my 15G nano, the DSB and live rock do all I need.
I am a firm believer in not adding anything to your tank you cannot test for. Do you even know what is in Purple Up or other additives? If you are going to use it test for whatever is in it. Its too easy to get things out of whack if you don't have a demand for something but keep adding it. Thats a very common mistake we see all these nice ads and buy something we really may not need.
 
Thanks Guys I appreciate your help and all the extra suggestions you have made. Yes its clear that a protein skimmer can help and in the future I will more than likely get this product (http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=938) or something like it.

But... I need to makes some real concrete distinctions before I can get off the flow subject. Other wise I will be running around like a chicken going from one thing to another and never really learning anything.
 
Right now I have the emp 400 (which you know) and the 2 MJ 900s (230gph)
Are at opposite ends of the tanks back wall. they are pointed so that each stream hits one another creating "turbulent" flow. do You think there are any adapters Other than the hydro flos that would create a better flow than the one I described?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9935002#post9935002 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dhnguyen
You want more flow? Mod your MJs into stream style pumps.
Click to expand...

Who sells the best kits? Or is there a good site that explains what ya need to do?
 
I would guess alkalinity and Calcium are out of whack. Have you tested for them? I really don't like Garf's dosing recomendations, it is like a giant advertisment for Seachem (nothing against Seachem products) They just recomend overdosing everything. You should dose to replace what your tank uses, and if you don't have coral, and you are dosing elements corals use, then you will get your tank chemistry out of whack.
 
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