fml ich outbreak

[troutking]

So saturday i bought a pearlscale butterflyfish, and as of today i noticed it has ich. FML now i have to treat my whole tank and i know marine ich is not as easy to kill as freshwater ich. This will be my first time treating any marine disease. for freshwater all i had to do was raise the temp and add salt and let ich run its course. From my understanding, im going to have to set up another tank to quarantine all my fish and treat with cupramine. Is this correct? i have a snowflake, rectangulus trigger, yellow tailed damsel, 3 hermit crabs, a chocolate chip star fish, and dwarf fuzzy and a ocellaris clown. the worst part is im so busy with school, but it is a fowlr can you guys walk me through this? thanks!!

 

[gone fishin]

There are a lot of stickies at the of this forum that will tell you everything you want know about ich and its treatment. good luck

 

[troutking]

I know so theres apparently 3 options: hyposalinity, copper, and moving them between two hospital tanks. Im just wondering wats best especially with the fish i have in stock. I know how to read sticikies im not new to forums. thank you

 

[gone fishin]

Your quite welcome

 

[troutking]

So my clownfish, trigger and eapecially the butterfly seem to be in distress.....would culling the butterfly fish prevent further infestastion or is it too late? Hes been in my tank since fri

 

[b0bab0ey]

So my clownfish, trigger and eapecially the butterfly seem to be in distress.....would culling the butterfly fish prevent further infestastion or is it too late? Hes been in my tank since fri

If the Pearlscale has Ich or Velvet, it's already too late. All of your fish need to QT'd and treated; All of your corals/inverts (crabs/chocolate chip starfish) can stay in the DT. Your DT needs to then remain fallow (fishless) for at least 9 weeks to starve out any remaining Ich.

As far as treatment options go, I think Cupramine would be your best option. Follow the instructions on the bottle and treat with it for 1 month. Buy one of these and do WCs as necessary to combat the ammonia in QT:

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html

Don't forget to treat WC water with Cupramine to replace the copper you are taking out. And buy a copper test kit (Salifert, for example) to test your copper level. Maintain it between 0.35 - 0.5 ppm.

 

[troutking]

for one month? dang..in the quarantine tank shud i attach the HOB and in tank filter i had on my DT? they have ceramic rings in it.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Why go fallow for 9 weeks, and use harsh chemicals. I have found UV in a high dose, clears up ich. It happened before my eyes. See the thread UV kills cryptocaryon a few pages back.

Al, I'm glad UV seems to have worked for you. I know it seems to have worked for a few folks....at least for now. But an anecdotal success story (so far) does not out weigh the opinions of every author, published UV tests, and the advice of almost every long-time successful hobbyist I know. I think encouraging its use is doing no one any favors. UV is not considered a cure for ich, only a little helper. This discussion has been going on forever and common sense makes it obvious that UV cannot eliminate all ich.

New ich theronts emerge from their "mothers", usually at night and from the substrate. Most fish sleep on the substrate. New ich theronts must find the UV intake before they find a fish host, that is sleeping on top of them. It only takes one theront to find a fish host and keep the cycle going. This is just obvious common sense and a few anecdotal exceptions don't change that.

There is no secret formula in your thread that hasn't been explored and rejected by countless hobbyists. I don't know of any company that even claims their UV products ELIMINATE all ich. These companies claim UV "will help control..." Controlling and eliminating are two different things. If your story was accurate, documented, and proven; UV mfgs would be blanketing the SW world with ads. I would encourage anyone thinking of trying to CURE ich to do some basic research before trying UV. UV will not only fail to eliminate ALL ich, it delays real treatment.

 

[b0bab0ey]

Al, I'm glad UV seems to have worked for you. I know it seems to have worked for a few folks....at least for now. But an anecdotal success story (so far) does not out weigh the opinions of every author, published UV tests, and the advice of almost every long-time successful hobbyist I know. I think encouraging its use is doing no one any favors. UV is not considered a cure for ich, only a little helper. This discussion has been going on forever and common sense makes it obvious that UV cannot eliminate all ich.

+1 My dad ran UVs on & off throughout the years. It's a good Ich "management tool" that's best left to experienced hobbyists who understand the risks. Most of the people asking questions in this forum are noobs who just want the problem to go away. And the advice we give them accomplishes that... in the easiest (although I know at times it doesn't seem that way) and most cost effective way.

Telling a noob to spend hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars on a piece of equipment that will never completely resolve the problem is just irresponsible IMO. Then there's the cost of a new bulb every 6 months. And after all that, you might still lose all your fish anyway. Most noobs probably hear enough useless "happy talk" about UVs from a LFS employee looking to make a quick sale.

 

[MrTuskfish]

WIth all due respect, I am free to encourage whatever I like. UV in high doses worked for me, wasnt anecdotal, and I will promote it, regardless of what you or anyone thinks.

Sure! You can say whatever you want; that's what a "forum" is. Others are also free to dispute your claims.

If you look up the definition of "anecdotal", IMO,your experience fits the definition.

 

[MrTuskfish]

WIth all due respect, I am free to encourage whatever I like. UV in high doses worked for me, wasnt anecdotal, and I will promote it, regardless of what you or anyone thinks.



Just remember a big post count doesnt mean your a professional, it just means you sit at the computer too much

I don't see any personal attacks in my posts; my only argument is with your methods.
Actually, I average less than an hour or so a day on the computer and seldom more than 1/2 hour at a time. Maybe more when I'm home; it beats TV. Its easy for me to get on RC for 10-15minutes from about anywhere. I'm just waiting in an office building now. My post count, which means nothing, is also spread over 5+ years. That's what, maybe 3 posts per day? And just in case it comes up, I have a personal rule against ever going online wearing only underwear. I may be almost 65, but still look great in boxers!

 

[b0bab0ey]

WIth all due respect, I am free to encourage whatever I like. UV in high doses worked for me, wasnt anecdotal, and I will promote it, regardless of what you or anyone thinks.

Yup. And others are free to dispute what you promote, and to try to steer noobs to a more proven path.

Also to the thread starter -I am here to offer my advice, but they are just here telling me my advice is wrong.

I gave the OP my recommended course of action in post #6. So, I'm not just here telling the OP your advice is wrong.

Only trust advice from those who already have what you are trying to achieve.

I've probably been battling fish diseases longer than you've been alive. And I've tried the garlic thing, UV thing, Ozone thing, etc. etc. In the past, I thought I could cut corners and not have to QT by using these methods. For a little while, it looked as though it would work. But when you live in a area that gets hit almost yearly with a natural disaster (in my case, hurricanes), you realize too late just how wrong you were. Variables you could normally control (power, temp, etc.) suddenly become unmanageable, and the stress from that lowers your fishes immune systems and the Ich you thought you beat suddenly comes roaring back. So, you watch helplessly as all your fish die because without power it's pointless to even try to setup a QT and medicate.

I decided after that experience to stop looking for shortcuts, and just go back to what works: QT and prophylactic treatment of all incoming fish. That way the next time Murphy's Law kicks in and something goes wrong, my fish will have a fighting chance to live without having to battle parasites on top of everything else.

 

[ERivera65]

From my trial and errors, I used a 9 watt UV sterilizer with success but it will only help remove anything that flows through it like free floating parasites or bacteria. I believe and will continue to use my methods. I feed my fish mysis and pellets with Selcon and aminomega from brightwell aquatics. I also use Seachem Metro and Focus to medicate their food. As long as they are eating the medication and vitamins will help.I believe the best way to treat fish is with their diet since its internal. But of course I agree with the above post, quarantining from the beginning is the way to go if you can do it.

 

[b0bab0ey]

From my trial and errors, I used a 9 watt UV sterilizer with success but it will only help remove anything that flows through it like free floating parasites or bacteria. I believe and will continue to use my methods. I feed my fish mysis and pellets with Selcon and aminomega from brightwell aquatics. I also use Seachem Metro and Focus to medicate their food. As long as they are eating the medication and vitamins will help.I believe the best way to treat fish is with their diet since its internal. But of course I agree with the above post, quarantining from the beginning is the way to go if you can do it.

See, the difference between you & Al is you're presenting your methods as a management tool. You know the parasites are still in your tank... you just choose to "manage" it by boosting your fishes immune systems and limiting the number of parasites which can affect them. And I've got no problem with any of that.

But telling someone (especially a noob) that something can eradicate the problem once & for all, when all the scientific research suggests otherwise, is just mind boggling to me.

 

[ERivera65]

I never said it would eliminate the parasite.I'm just saying if you boost the fish immune system it will help them fight it off.I have done it like this and I am suggestingwhat he can possibly try. I never said to do it my way.

 

[MrTuskfish]

See, the difference between you & Al is you're presenting your methods as a management tool. You know the parasites are still in your tank... you just choose to "manage" it by boosting your fishes immune systems and limiting the number of parasites which can affect them. And I've got no problem with any of that.

But telling someone (especially a noob) that something can eradicate the problem once & for all, when all the scientific research suggests otherwise, is just mind boggling to me.

This hits on something that may sound snobby; but its true in most anything. Experience counts. Long-time successful hobbyists can do lots of things a new hobbyist can't. This is true with any occupation or hobby. New SW fish folks have a lot more info than was available years ago; but human nature says we will grab the most convenient answer as fact. Research requires that we find the most logical and compelling option for our situation; not just the easiest, info from the person with the most posts, or the owner of nicest avatar (sarcasm, of course).

In a hobby like ours; someone, somewhere has done just about everything. One or two seemingly successful stories may be a compelling reason to do many things. There sure is nothing wrong with challenging the CW. But when it comes to saving the lives of our critters; I think decisions should be backed by more than the occasional anecdotal (there's that word again!) account and backed by real science whenever possible.

All of the drivel above is, of course, IMO & IME.

 

[b0bab0ey]

New SW fish folks have a lot more info than was available years ago; but human nature says we will grab the most convenient answer as fact.

This hits the nail right on the head. Who wants to hear that they have to pull all their fish out, setup QTs, go fallow for 9+ weeks, etc.? When there's this piece of equipment you can buy; It hooks right up to your DT and supposedly makes the problem go away. I mean, if you didn't know any better, which option would you choose?!

So, odds are the noob will wipe out his tank and put it all up for sale on craigslist. Which is great for those wanting to buy a 2nd hand setup cheap... except repeated stories like this also give animal rights activists the ammo they need to curtail our hobby. It's already happened in Europe, and to a lesser extent so far, here. Remember when Yellow Tangs were only $10-$15? Well, it's not just inflation that's resulted in the steep increase in ornamental fish prices. Activists have been successful in lobbying to put limits on imports. And unless we're able to demonstrate as a community that we're able to keep these fish in captivity long-term, I except it will only get worse.

 

[CHSUB]

how about running a diatom filter, that will work better than a uv.... than the " activists" will leave our hobby alone.:hmm4: