FOWLR Filtration Questions

[Elricsfate]

Hello all,

I am in the process of tearing down a 180g freshwater tank with the intention of turning it into a saltwater tank. I had a 55g saltwater tank some 15 years ago, but I have been out of the hobby since then.

My intention is to order "the package" from TBS and eventually add a few fish. At this point I am only concerned with keeping the inverts (snails, crabs, shrimp, starfish, etc) that come with "the package", as well as adding a few things like urchins, in the future. I have no intention at this point of keeping corals of any kind. That will likely come later, and in a smaller tank to start with.

So my question is this...

With the live sand/live rock, the cleaner crew, and an appropriately sized HOT Protein skimmer, as well as some power heads for current...do I really need to worry with plumbing/sumps, etc. at all?

Thanks in advance.

 

[shadowmonster]

Nope, not at all. Basically just treat it the same way you did your freshwater tank.

 

[Elricsfate]

Nope, not at all. Basically just treat it the same way you did your freshwater tank.

Thanks for the quick reply

 

[Walla2GSP]

You don't have to, but I will say I wish I had a sump on my 80 gallon FOWLR tank every day. The cleanup crews need really good water chemistry so keeping them alive without a sump or frequent water changes can be a pain. I have to upgrade my tank size soon because I have some big puffers and when I build the new 220, I'm definitely putting in 160 gallon sump so I can stabilze the DT, and get all the junk off the back of my tank.

 

[Sk8r]

A couple of sneaky chemicals are in play in a marine tank...that a sump can handle via a larger skimmer (mine has an 8"x8" footprint in the sump; and you can add filtration simply by using 'filter sock.'
1. nitrate---this is not a HUGE concern to fish, but it can be to invertebrates. A sump/skimmer well-kept can reduce nitrate to 10 or lower; fish can live in 100 level nitrates, but other things can't. Corals really, really, really don't like high nitrate, and one of the only things fragile about corals is that they die if you can't control the nitrate.
2. ammonia. This also comes from decaying stuff, like nitrate, only THIS one corals tolerate better than fish. ANY ammonia can kill fish--usually over a 3 day period. If you have decayed food or dead fish, this is a byproduct, and if your bacteria aren't able to handle it fast enough, your fish die, thus creating a cascade of death, one after the other.
3. phosphate: this comes in with tap water, sand and rock that have absorbed it. It soaks out over time. Fish tolerate it, but corals don't. Algae absolutely adores it, and will become a green plague.
1 and 2 are handled by your sump or filter (clean it to prevent nitrate buildup.) Keep a bottle of Prime on hand which can stop ammonia in its tracks. If you have a skimmer, you may not need a filter at all: corals are living filters, and some like a little particulate, some don't.
3 is handled by GFO in a GFO reactor, which will stop algae from taking over. You use it once and then it's pretty well handled.
Carbon used occasionally can clean up any other nastiness, like odor, etc.

I give you ALL the range of stuff so you can make an informed choice about type of tank. I find a softie or lps reef about the easiest, because if your water chemistry gets wonky, corals will close up and self-protect, which cues the owner to test the water and fix what's wrong. Unhappily, fish give no such warning: they just swim around smiling until with little warning, they sink to the bottom overwhelmed with something---mostly ammonia or a disease or parasite (which you MUST quarantine for: wild-caught fishes may come in with passengers too small to see. And so can some from some domestic sources. You also have to dip corals, but fish qt is a many-days process.)

Hope that helps.

 

[Elricsfate]

Thank you Sk8r. I have read many of your other posts over recent days. You are clearly a well informed individual.

I do not plan to keep any corals in this tank (at least as of right now that is not my plan). I want to keep alive the things that come on, and in, the live rock, and add a few fish. That's pretty much it.

I'm cool with hanging a skimmer (or two) on the back of the tank, and running carbon 24/7 through a Whisper type filter.

I may very well end up plumbing this tank just to future proof it. But I wanted to find out if I *needed* to use a sump or not.

Thanks again.

 

[Elricsfate]

Let us assume I decide to go ahead and have this tank drilled and install a sump so that it is prepared for whatever I want to do in the future...

Should I have the drain holes drilled in the bottom, both corners? Back wall center for returns? Or should I drill all the holes in the back wall of the tank a couple of inches from the top? Or what?

 

[tjm9331]

Before you drill from the bottom you need to make sure that the bottom glass of your aquarium isn't tempered. If its tempered then don't drill it cause it will shatter.

Most folks drill the back of the tank.

 

[Elricsfate]

Before you drill from the bottom you need to make sure that the bottom glass of your aquarium isn't tempered. If its tempered then don't drill it cause it will shatter.

Most folks drill the back of the tank.

Yeah, I personally am not going to drill it at all. I'm going to have a glass company come do it. So if it shatters, it's on them not me.

I know I have seen some pics of tanks with holes in the bottom, with pvc pipes sticking up inside of an overflow. But I'm cool with doing it in the back.

Any tips or tricks for reducing the sound that water flowing out a 1.5-2 in hole and down a pipe would make? I know with the ones drilled in the bottom that's what the capped pvc pipe does, but not sure how that works when the holes are in the back.

 

[tjm9331]

Yeah, I personally am not going to drill it at all. I'm going to have a glass company come do it. So if it shatters, it's on them not me.

I know I have seen some pics of tanks with holes in the bottom, with pvc pipes sticking up inside of an overflow. But I'm cool with doing it in the back.

Any tips or tricks for reducing the sound that water flowing out a 1.5-2 in hole and down a pipe would make? I know with the ones drilled in the bottom that's what the capped pvc pipe does, but not sure how that works when the holes are in the back.

the pics you've seen were probably reef ready tanks, those usually have the holes drilled in from the bottom but most people after they've gotten their tank drill in the back, that I've seen anyways.

I don't have any personal experience with sumps and plumbing. I'm one of the few that don't run a sump, I'm sure one of the more experienced members can help you with your noise question.

 

[shadowmonster]

There's all kinds of ways to damper the noise from an overflow, you'll just have to experiment a little. Just as an example I put a towel over the top of mine, but I can still hear the water gurgling, the low hum from the pumps, the fan etc. Keeping a tank COMPLETELY quiet is kind of hard to accomplish. After awhile though you'll get used to it.

Btw a sump is purely aesthetical IMO. It's just a place to hide your equipment. A 30 gallon tank with a 10 gallon sump is a 40 gallon tank without one. A 40 gallon tank with a 20 gallon sump is a 60 gallon tank without one etc etc. It's all one body of water.

 

[kmbyrnes]

You don't NEED a sump, but it makes life a lot easier and improves the appearance of your DT as well. Your cleaning equipment and heaters are out of sight, you can top off evaporated water more easily and if/when you move to corals, any automated dosing equipment can go into the sump rather than directly into the DT.
As for drains, a full siphon system like a Herbie or Bean Animal can be nearly 100% silent. At this moment on the tank behind me, the sound of water going over the weir into the overflow is much louder than the siphon, and I have to concentrate to hear the light swoosh of falling water. This sound also tells me I need to clean or adjust something today, because normally that tank makes no noise at all.

 

[Bluefish9]

Im in the middle of a 150 FOWLR build and I couldnt imagine doing it without a sump. Just makes maint so much easier IMO and I really dont want to look at anything in my display other than inhabitants and aquascape

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[zKRYt]

Im in the middle of a 150 FOWLR build and I couldnt imagine doing it without a sump. Just makes maint so much easier IMO and I really dont want to look at anything in my display other than inhabitants and aquascape

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That's a beautiful setup you got there! Love the finish on the cabinet also. Looks great!

 

[Elricsfate]

Im in the middle of a 150 FOWLR build and I couldnt imagine doing it without a sump. Just makes maint so much easier IMO and I really dont want to look at anything in my display other than inhabitants and aquascape

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I feel ya. I'm leaning that way myself. I was leaning toward just a HOB skimmer and some power heads blowing current over live rock. But now I'm leaning toward a sump.

The guy who gave me this tank some years ago has expressed an interest in buying it back from me. Now I'm thinking about selling it to him and purchasing a reef ready tank and stand.

Man...indecision sucks. ;-)

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm a big proponent of making informed decisions.

 

[Elricsfate]

Sorry for the copy of the pics, though I do like them. I just hit "quote" and didn't think about it. Unfortunately I cannot edit my posts.