Foxface in QT suddenly not doing well

Deinonych

Deinonych

New member
I have a One-Spot Foxface that I received from LiveAquaria on 8-Feb. He acclimated very well and has been eating well from day one. Today while home for lunch I noticed that he was breathing heavily and swimming lethargically. He's normally very skittish, but did not react to my presence by hiding or raising his spines. He's now on his side breathing heavily not moving.

He is currently in a 20G QT with a red firefish and a bicolor blenny. The other fish are acting normally and eating.

1. How old is this aquarium? -- ~6 weeks; fish is in a QT that I cycled with Dr. Tim's One and Only + ammonium chloride; also started adding Seachem Stability on 12-Feb to try to control nitrites better -- they are currently reading 1ppm. Ammonia has never been a problem since I have added fish.

2. If less than six months old, what is ammonia level? -- zero

3. What is SG of this aquarium? How measured? -- 1.025 measure with refractometer

4. When was the last fish added to this aquarium? - firefish was added on 9-Feb

5. Was it quarantined? If so, how? And how long? Was it prophylactically treated? How? -- currently in QT, started PraziPro treatment on 13-Feb

6. If you are using a copper based medication, which one? How often do you measure level? When? -- n/a

7. If you are using hyposalinity, how did you calibrate your refractometer? -- n/a

8. Please describe in detail, the appearance of the fish? If there is one or more pimples, are they lumpy? What color? -- no pimples as far as I can tell

9. Please describe the behavior of the fish as best you can. Is it acting reclusive? Is it always up towards the top of the aquarium? Is it avoiding light? How active is the fish? -- currently laying on its side in the corner of the tank breathing heavily; it is nestled up against a piece of PVC to so it doesn't have to contend with the flow in the tank

10. Is the fish eating? What? -- did not eat today, but was eating well previously; was eating Nori, frozen Hikari mysis and frozen Emerald Entree
 
Also should mention I'm running an Aqueon HOB filter with just filter floss and a media bag filled with ceramic discs (to provide surface area for bacteria). I have a Tunze 6015 powerhead angled toward the surface for flow & gas exchange.
 
Deinonych said:
I have a One-Spot Foxface that I received from LiveAquaria on 8-Feb. He acclimated very well and has been eating well from day one. Today while home for lunch I noticed that he was breathing heavily and swimming lethargically. He's normally very skittish, but did not react to my presence by hiding or raising his spines. He's now on his side breathing heavily not moving.

He is currently in a 20G QT with a red firefish and a bicolor blenny. The other fish are acting normally and eating.

1. How old is this aquarium? -- ~6 weeks; fish is in a QT that I cycled with Dr. Tim's One and Only + ammonium chloride; also started adding Seachem Stability on 12-Feb to try to control nitrites better -- they are currently reading 1ppm. Ammonia has never been a problem since I have added fish.

2. If less than six months old, what is ammonia level? -- zero

3. What is SG of this aquarium? How measured? -- 1.025 measure with refractometer

4. When was the last fish added to this aquarium? - firefish was added on 9-Feb

5. Was it quarantined? If so, how? And how long? Was it prophylactically treated? How? -- currently in QT, started PraziPro treatment on 13-Feb

6. If you are using a copper based medication, which one? How often do you measure level? When? -- n/a

7. If you are using hyposalinity, how did you calibrate your refractometer? -- n/a

8. Please describe in detail, the appearance of the fish? If there is one or more pimples, are they lumpy? What color? -- no pimples as far as I can tell

9. Please describe the behavior of the fish as best you can. Is it acting reclusive? Is it always up towards the top of the aquarium? Is it avoiding light? How active is the fish? -- currently laying on its side in the corner of the tank breathing heavily; it is nestled up against a piece of PVC to so it doesn't have to contend with the flow in the tank

10. Is the fish eating? What? -- did not eat today, but was eating well previously; was eating Nori, frozen Hikari mysis and frozen Emerald Entree
Click to expand...

You should have zero ammonia and also zero nitrite in QT unless you, in desperation against a bacterial infection, have to use a drug that harms nitrification bacteria.

Cycling is VERY VERY easy and you are using more to get less to cycle.
You likely had not waited long enough for the cycle for QT to complete.

You could have tested the ammonia and nitrite processing capability of the medium in QT. Before you get any fish, have the medium process a pulse of ammonia, higher than any livestock can generate, and make sure that there is no ammonia or nitrite. How can an artifical ammonia pulse be not less than any real livestock can generate?

Do you have UV also in QT? Bacterial infection can be a cause of your problem and a properly fitted UV will reduce the incidents of bacterial infection in QT.

I always use UV at the start of QT, until a drug, if any, that is affected by UV has to be used.
 
I am not using UV.

I used ammonium chloride to cycle the tank along with Dr. Tim's. I was able to get ammonia @ 3ppm to go to zero in 24 hours. I kept feeding the bacteria with ammonium chloride for another couple weeks after that to try to get nitrite to go to zero as well, but it never would. It would always hover around .1 - .25.

That said, I have heard some people start a QT without any cycling and manage the nutrients with water changes. I did a 25% WC yesterday before adding PraziPro, and had done a 25% WC a couple days before.

I've also read that saltwater fish are not as sensitive to nitrites (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php). Not trying to downplay the importance of water quality, but I'm wondering if there is another root cause since my ammonia is 0.

Edit: I have to say I have found quarantine to be an extremely stressful process for me. My display tank is completely cycled (both ammonia and NO2 go to zero in 24 hours when ammonia is added). It's tempting to place the fish in the DT since it has much better filtration. I'm sticking with the QT, though, as I know the long term benefit will be worth it. I'm really frustrated seeing a fish not do well.
 
Last edited:
Deinonych said:
I am not using UV.

I used ammonium chloride to cycle the tank along with Dr. Tim's. I was able to get ammonia @ 3ppm to go to zero in 24 hours. I kept feeding the bacteria with ammonium chloride for another couple weeks after that to try to get nitrite to go to zero as well, but it never would. It would always hover around .1 - .25.

.
Click to expand...

Then the test kit is in question. I trust that there is enough medium for bacteria to grow.

You will never have nitrite persistently if you have added ammonia. If nitrobactor type bacteria exist, it will grow and so nitrite will eventually, and not too distant, drop to zero. This is a certainty.

The UV properly set up does reduce the incidents of bacterial infection, but UV has no impact on ich.
 
It is possible for a trace of nitrite to persist for a brief moment if a very large impulse of ammonia, larger than the previous pulse, is added.

If you add the same pulse of ammonia over and over again, there will not be nitrite eventually.

After you have gone thru such robust cycling, you should never detect nitrite in the QT with real livestock, unless a drug that harms nitrification bacteria is used.
 
Yes, the whole nitrite persistence is baffling to me. I did not have this "syndrome" with my display tank. Makes me wonder if there is something in the water or environment causing it, but I can't imagine what it might be. I'm using RO/DI and Instant Ocean. The RO/DI tests 0 TDS before adding salt.

I've confirmed the nitrite reading with both an API and a Salifert test kit, with similar readings.

This is why I've started adding Seachem Stability -- want to get the nitrite taken care of quickly so I can rule that out as a cause of problems.

Edit: there's also the fact that the firefish and blenny are acting completely normal that leads me to believe there is something other than water quality that is causing this
 
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